Less Headaches with French Wine?

Le Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:34:46 +1200, st.helier a écrit :

I also think that DDT and other pesticides can't be responsible of headaches, especially in such small amounts as found in wines. It may be responsible of long term health problems, but not of instant headaches.

What is known to start headaches are large amounts of sulfites. I mean sulfites and not sulphates, especially hydrogenosulfites that are present in most wines, especially young wines. White wines less than 2 years old are likely to contain fair amounts of sulfites, generally expressed in terms of SO2. SO2 and sulfites have been used in winemaking ever since the sixteenth century, and possibly earlier. At first, sulfur was being burnt inside the barrels, so as to insure the killing of wild yeast and parasitic ferments. More recently, instead of burning sulphur, potassium hydrogenosulfite was added, which in the end gave the same result. When wine ages, sulfites oxidise into sulphates (no health effect). Whenever I have to serve a white wine that is less than 2 years old, I open the bottle at least 2 hours before serving, better yet if you do it the day before.

The period between spraying and picking is longer for wine than for fruit picked for other purposes. Not for health reasons, but because winemakers don't want the sprays cocking up their fermentations. So unless juices are made with no skin contact I'd expect them, on the whole, to contain more pesticides than wine.

I have no doubt that the most poisenous chemical in wine is alcohol.

The period between spraying and picking is longer for wine than for fruit picked for other purposes. Not for health reasons, but because winemakers don't want the sprays cocking up their fermentation. So unless juices are made with no skin contact I'd expect them, on the whole, to contain more pesticides than wine.

I have no doubt that the most poisenous chemical in wine is alcohol.

Sorry, but sulfites rarely are the cause of wine-related headaches. if they were, bananas (which have more sulfites than most wines) would cause more headaches than wine. In fact, the source of those headaches is still largely unclear, though there are several culprits. More on the subject can be found in our FAQ:

Mark Lipton

Quite the contrary: DDT is readily translocated from soil through the plant. That was one reason it was so effective. Still, like you I doubt most sincerely that DDT residue is responsible for headaches.

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" wrote ...............

I bow to your knowledge, learned one.

Apart from my early years on the farm, I had several years experience, gained while employed by Welcome / ICI, marketing agricultural chemicals and animal remedies.

I was under the impression (conveyed by our technical teams), that while small, but measurable, amounts of DDT had been found in roots, the amount translocating to foliage was minute as to be indeterminable in all but plants with high levels of fat (e.g. rape) - and that zero residues had been found in fruit.

However, also from personal experience, if one wants a *real* headache, try (accidentally) placing systemic organophosphate on one's skin: an error I made only once.

st.helier

Still, like you I

Le Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:37:27 -0400, Mark Lipton a écrit :

Bananas ? I am unaware of any SO2 or sulfite treatment used in growing bananas... yet I must admit my lack of knowledge in such industry. However, since bananas are mostly being consumed as whole fruit, not in fermented stuff (except if rhum is made of bananas, which I don't know), I would suspect that if bananas are treated with sulfites, this stays with the peel... It may also be that bananas are treated, not using sulfites or burnt sulphur (which ends up to the same result), but with raw powdered sulphur, what is called "fleur de soufre" in French (in chemistry, this is the elemental sulfur/sulphur, with the symbol S). This is widely used to fight some vegetal diseases such as oïdium. In my opinion, raw elemental sulfur is most likely amongst the most harmless chemicals used in agriculture... but I admit that my knowledge in this subject needs completion.

As for myself, only young white wines generate headaches, as well as muscular cramps. Red wines don't, neither do old whites. Of course, if I were drinking huge amounts, I suppose that either red or whites, young or old, chemical or organic wines would give me headaches.

You could be right. When I drank an experimental homemade "wine" prepared with the following ingredients, I got a light buzz but didn't get a headache/hangover:

Crushed 2.5 lb of red seedless grapes into a mason jar. Added 1/2 cup of water, a tsp of sugar and 1 packet of regular yeast (for bread). After 7 days, strained the contents and drank 1 cup. It looked a thin raspberries milk shake. It tasted like a dilute cross between wine and beer.