Places to visit in Chateauneuf-du-Papes

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" wrote in news:bfyOf.47106$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net:

While I haven't been to CdP in a few years, it is the most commercial of all French wine areas. The vilage itself is lined with tasting rooms. I found that the smaller less know places were better at pouring quality wine while the obvious, as in visible, places (Who was that pouring up by the remains of the old chateau, yecch?) were not so good. There are for instance two Trintignants, though Hugh Johnson only lists one, we bought a whte from one ofthem, it was fantastic, but they pured a very wide selection including some excellent wine to go with the standard tourist fare.

In my estimation, FWIW, Gigondas is a better area to visit. eat at Les Florets. the producers inthis area aren't as jaded and provide a very good tasting experience as well as producing fine wines. That said, if you can get into a real tasting a Beaucastel or its ilk, well you owe it to all of us to report back.

Sounds like the Ste Anne should have been a good match...

So, you can get addresses either from Hachette or the local tourist info in the centre of town, I won't bother to list here. Always a good idea to call ahead, of course.

Font de Michelle, very refined, fine whites. Cuvée Gonnet is done in oak but a great marriage. Very talented winemakers, and friendly.

Bosquet des Papes, old style, watch for vintage variation but can be classic.

Roger Perrin (route d'Orange), best deal in CdP, fabulous in a good year with terrific depth. If you're driving, bring a large container and buy as many litres as you can carry of declassified CdP "en vrac". (No direct relation to the Perrins of Beaucastel fame.)

Beaurenard, the Coulon family are still holding to tradition in spite of RP's crooning over their oaky cuvée amusingly named Boisrenard. Also good CdR and a Rasteau that holds its own in a good year.

Grand Tinel represents good value and classic style. Ask if they have any table wine going. (We used to get scads of this in the mid-90s for 12FF/bt, it drank like a 60FF CdP!)

La Nerthe has gotten pricey but still does well, nice spot too. Sadly I remember when they had just bought the place, and the prices hadn't changed yet.

Vieux Telegraphe is worth a visit, but bring the chequebook.

That's what occurs just now, I'm sure there are others I like that I haven't thought of... :)

Sadly Rayas requires a personal introduction, or they run you off with the dogs! (So rumour has it).

Given limited time I would not miss a visit to R. Perrin and Font de Michelle. Just hope the former never gets "discovered..."

cheers,

-E

Joe,

While I agree that Chateauneuf is quite commercial, there are still many producers that are delighted to take the time to present and discuss their wines. This is what Nils should seek out, and since he's an old hand I don't think he's likely to be seduced by the tourist traps.

Also, Gigondas, while IMO a terrific appellation, is not really the same kettle of fish; it's like, if someone asks for Cornas recommendations, I don't send them to St. Joseph! :)

Certainly in terms of natural beauty, the Gigondas/Vacqueyras (Dentelles) and Beaumes de Venise are far preferable. And there are many fine domaines, too. Just not the same...

-E

Emery Davis wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@loki.domain.org:

Absolutely, IIRC there are a few that require letters of introduction, there are some who are open and great and some . . . One of my favorites, from back when Gault Millau was a reliable food and lodging guide, was Chateau Fines Roches G-M said "Once you get by the chilly reception" (speaking now of the hotel, restaurant, I don't think they had a tasting room) We showed up looking for the restaurant, and found a deserted scary place then all of a sudden this little gnome popped up and regarded us with all of the charm of a rotweiller. We got to see the grounds and have a wonderful memory of atypical French reception, but wouldn't recommend the place. I later bought one of their wines for the memory, it too wasn't worth the effort ;-)

You got me there, mea culpa

I never meant to imply that, was regarding the relative joy of the experience. In Gigondas you are more likely to taste with the owner/vinter or at least a family member in CdP it may well be a high school age kid who knows little and cares less.

Emery Davis wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@loki.domain.org:

Of course, if I were able to drive down with a trailer equipped with a large plastic tank, I might well go with your suggestion re R. Perrin!

Funny you should mention this place. Adele and I spent 3 days on our honeymoon there, back in '87. There certainly was no tasting room, and what's more, in the (decent but no more) restaurant they actually dissed their own wine, suggesting that something else might be preferable! I seem to remember we tried a white that wasn't half bad. Funny, they now seem to be a bit of a rising star, although I've not tasted since the stay.

I don't so much remember the chill as the dust in the rooms. But also glorious walks over the galets, through the vines, with incredible heat radiating from the ground even though it was only May. []

Fair enough, of course. But for all of the commercialism there are still plenty of family run businesses in Chateauneuf.

Re you other post, for visiting R. Perrin, the largest available receptacle is needed, indeed! And there, you'll meet Mme, equipped with slippers and housedress. She will often give a bottle or two as a gift with your order, provide labels for the 30 l you intend to bottle later, and sell you a jar of her excellent raspberry jam, to boot! :)

cheers,

-E

"Emery Davis" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@loki.domain.org...

Sadly, no. We are great fans of Ste Anne and we loved this wine (their cuvée normale, taht is, no the one w 98% Mouvédre) which was very animal on the nose, cherries and cherrypits, sweet tobacco (grenache lurking, yes) and a very good structure - but it didn´t suit the daub, a lowly CHinati might have been better since the daube (according to its recipe) contained toamtoes, and vinegar, and had a fairly high acidity. And the wine didn´t take to that. CdP was a recommendation from the author of the book in which we found the daube in question.

I found two: Charbonniére and Caillou. Both appeared to have good QPR, even if they were not exactly _cheap_ but, that is perhaps as much an oxymoron ("cheap CdP") as, governement aid, fair taxing, rap music ... (please fill in your favorites)

Now, this sounds like the serious biscuit. Not the vrac thingy, but since both you and Jospeh extolls their virtues, well, not to be missed, I´d wager.

Notes are busily taken ... We will stay at the "Mere Germaine" (at least, that´s what we plan). Only one night: Plenty of other places to call and we want to get down to Nice (besides, Saturday June 17th is the date of the annual bouillabaisse, never to be missed!) and settle in.

Cheers, and thanks, the both of you

Nils Gustaf

Nils, In addition to Emery's excellent suggestions, I'd add a few others. I can understand Joseph's observation about the commercial aspects of CdP, but I've never experienced them as I first visited there with a good understanding of what domaines I wanted to visit. Those that I've visited have been humble vignerons (and vigneronnes) and their families. So, here's a short list of other people worth visiting: Domaine Du Pegau (Feraud) Clos de Papes (Avril) Bois de Boursan (Versino)

Chateau Fortia is also an interesting visit, though their wines in recent years have failed to excite me. Still, it's an historic domaine (the Baron Le Roy who founded the rules of encepagement in CdP, leading to the AOC rules, owned it -- his grandson and daughter still do) with great terroir. Beaucastel is worth a visit, though it's a much more commercial enterprise. Note that, aside from Bois de Boursan, the wines have grown quite expensive in recent years. Of course, as you know, the price ex domaine is a bargain compared to retail, even more so when one compares it to what we poor souls in the US must pay ;-) Still, the experience itself is worth the price of admission.

HTH Mark Lipton

"Ronin" wrote in news:2rLPf.70$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net:

Their house wine is truly the house wine because they make it in the family.