Please assist; I'm a newbie

Chris,

A good starting point is:

Art is a frequent poster to this NG, and his site is extensive, and fairly easy to navigate. This NG is another good place to hang-out for a bit. Don't hesitate to ask questions. That, and actually drinking wine, are worth the effort.

Another poster has a site:

that seems to be geared for the starting wine drinker. I'd pay that site a visit, too.

Before anyone can give you recommendations regarding red, or any for that matter, wine, we need to know where you are located. Since this is an international NG, if I suggest a bunch of obscure (to your location) FR wines, it will do you no good. Another helpful bit of info, would be a few of the wines that you liked, and maybe even some that you did not like. This will narrow the list quite a bit. Last, try and establish a budget, as wine prices are totally across the board. If I give you a few that I like, but are out of your price range, it will do you no good.

With a bit more background and detail, I'll bet you get some great recommendations.

Most of all, enjoy, Hunt

Hi Hunt,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. My initial gut reaction told me to include my whereabouts, but alas, I did not. I live in Canada, in the suburbs of Toronto. At 24 years of age, I'm sure I'm on the younger end of the spectrum for wine drinkers, and so I would guess that my palate is somewhat underdeveloped. Two years ago I got into cigar smoking. With cigars, I mostly prefer the medium to full bodied Cuban cigars. For this reason, I'm guessing that I will likely prefer medium to fuller bodied wines as well, and so I started with Red. As I'm just starting out, my budget is in the area of $10 - $30 CAD per bottle. Some of the wines which I've tried are: Hillesbrand Cabernet - Ontario: I found this to be a more potent wine. I liked the strength of it, but did not find the flavours to be very complex. Santa Carolina Cabernet - Chile: I found this wine to be a good balance of strength and complexity. Wolf Blass Cabernet - Australia: This one I did not like very much at all. I found that it lacked in flavour and the consistency seemed too thin. Yellow Tail Shiraz - Australia: This one seemed pretty nice. Better than the Yellow Tail Merlot I had tried before. Jackson Triggs Cabernet - Ontario: This one was somewhat similar to the Wolf Blass. It seemed weak and quite bland.

I hope that this is an adequate background to possibly recommend something for me to try. Hopefully this will give you a bit more understanding into my psyche.

Thanks, Chris

Yes, Chris, this is a good starting point. This NG has quite a few Canadians. Being just a bit south of you, I'm not certain what the avaiability of wines in Canada are like, but think that there is "national" distribution co-op arrangement. The Canadians have tried to help me make some sense of it, but some of the areas are grey to me still. I hope that they will weigh in with info that is useful to you.

Of the wines you mention, the only one with which I am familiar is the Wolf- Blass. Just like US/CA (California here) wines, much of what one sees from OZ are fairly insipid liquids. I find the same thing with all of the Chilean wine I have tried, but hold out hope that there is at least one that is worth the effort to drink. It seems that there is a special area in some of the Canadian stores for "reserve-type" wines. I forget the designation, and it also seems as though many shops do not have it. The budget looks like you should be able to include some very nice reds, though I'm also not up on the US v CA $ exchange rate.

In very general terms, Cabernet, Shiraz/Syrah, and maybe some of the US Zins would be good candidates for trial. The Syrah and Zin would probably offer more "bang for the buck," as Cabs seem to have a bit steeper quality to price

-point scale. As many have discussed here, finding a quality Merlot (primarily from US, Italy, France (non-Pomerol), and the Southern Hemisphere, is a bit of a search. I'll let the Canadians give specific recommendations, as much of what I might like, based on your info, would probably not be available.

Also, take pity on your neighbors to the south, as a Cuban is not easy to come by!

As you have done already, please continue to sample wines, and post your TNs (tasting notes). That will help others, who might be interested in those wines, and will also help refine your observations and tastes regarding the wines you are drinking. You are just beginning what can be a wonderful trip, that has no end. Also, in the US, especially in the larger metro areas, there seems to be real growth in wine consumption by folk in your age-group. Several loose wine-societies have formed by a younger segment of public. They seem to have the ability to "keep it light" regarding the appreciation of wine (not " light" wines). Sometimes I long for the days of just enjoying the wine, finding I too easily get bogged down with the science, and minutae of it all - maybe that just comes with age?

Now, sit back, visit a few Web sites, and hang out here, with a glass of wine at hand, and see what others, especially the Canadians in the group, will recommend.

Hunt

Hi Chris,

24 year old who likes reds with a modest budget. Good combination!

Being twice as old as you plus some, other than investing in mutuals or RRSPs early, investing in wine is really worthwhile.

Treat yourself once a month and buy a bottle that has cellaring ability. (advice at LCBO or this group will help) That's assuming you can get to a cellar or buy a wine fridge.

Then go get the monthly LCBO new release booklet and mark off some that sound good to you. Try them and buy a few of the ones you like.

Don't forget to buy lots of the cheapies so you have some weekly quaffing wine. You might hit on one that suits you to a tee.

I wish I knew then (mid twenties) what I know now(mid fifties). I'd have a great collection !!

All the best,

Larry

There are thousands of red wines from each of the major wine-producing countries. In Italy alone, there are thousands of producers of just Chianti!

I suggest you go to a store that has a large selection of Italian wine, and start with southern Italian, Sicilian, and Sardinian wines. A bottle of anything by the Argiolas family is well worth trying.

And please don't get a merlot or pinot noir from California...

Hi Chris,

I would like to know which Hillebrand Estates Cab you tried. Potent but not complex. Many of the varietal dry reds are around 12% alcohol, I agree that they range in complexity.

Hillebrand Trius Cabernet Franc recently Feb. 2005 won a Bronze at the Grand Harvest Awards in Sonoma California and the Trius Cabernt Sauvignon took a Silver.at the same event. Both of these wines are $14.95 The Trius Merlot is also $14.95. Their current vintage is 2002 and they have enough tannins to cellar for a bit. The winery suggests that they may peek in 2007.

Keep trying. There are a lot of good wines in your price range.

Bob Patrick, Oakville, Ontario

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Hi Patrick,

The one I tried was the Hillebrand Harvest Cabernet Sauvignon 2003. Have you heard anything about this particular wine?

Hello Chris,

You are going to (as you've probably noticed) going to get a lot of advice from a lot of different sources who all like different things. The most important thing to remember is that there is no "right" or "wrong".... everyone's palate and preferences are different, so what I may absolutely love, you could hate and vice versa. As several folks have pointed out, trying a lot of different wines is the key to really understanding what you like and don't like.

My recommendation is to find a local store that has a regular tasting, and a decent selection. In my part of the country (Birmingham, AL) we have about

7 stores with weekly tastings that average about $5 to taste 6-8 wines. This is how I got started in the business about 8 years ago. It's a great way to try a lot of different wines without sinking much money into something that you may or may not like.

My other recommendation is to not limit yourself, because you *think* that you won't like it.... be experimental and unafraid to try something; you'll be surprised at how often you will actually like it a lot.

And finally, having mentioned that you also enjoy a good cigar I think that you will find that a good Zinfandel goes quite nicely with a good cigar.

Cheers, Gary

Canada, in

understanding into

"wrong"....

absolutely

tasting, and a

"CHris" in news: snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com...

Absolutely appropriate age to build one's palate though! Go for it!

Some data points, I hope of interest:

1. In North America (harboring famously less "wine drinking" cultures than in some other regions), many people become interested in wines relatively late, like age 40. After they have launched a career etc., and maybe decide they can afford it or have more time for it. Many of these become involved and knowledgeable. But it takes _time_ to train a palate, it takes _time_ to see the same wines you've tasted young and revisit them 20 years later, and that is why some experts regard starting as young as possible to be indispensable. (Also, it takes time to see some 10-year-long wine fads come and go, and appreciate them in perspective.)

1. One wine merchant I've known in co-operative tasting groups was 23 years old, many others have been in their 20s. (The 23-year-old spoke plainly. In one tasting she declared to another taster -- a senior professor -- "you're being pompous." The latter answered with dignity and equanimity, "Professors are selected to be pompous.")

2. Quoting Blake Ozias in _All About Wine_ (ISBN 0690000944): "I hope [this] book will stimulate -- especially in the younger generation -- a wider appreciation of wine's many virtues. A knowledge of wines should be a part of everyone's education. To walk about with an arts degree and be ignorant of wine is incongruous. I could put up strong arguments for including wine in the curriculum of all high schools and colleges."

Ozias wrote one of the three popular and now seriously "classic" English-language general wine introductions I know of, all of which have elements in common. All three are "thin" books, all are now dated on details, all are still fairly timeless, and new readers find delightful things in them. All were written by non-wine-professionals, journalists more or less who were passionate wine enthusiasts, writing after many decades' experience. The most remarkable of the three by universal consensus, and also more-or-less the start of modern consumer enophile education in English, is

George Sainstsbury, _Notes on a Cellar-Book._ 1920. Frequently reprinted with very minor changes; 14th edition 1978.

The third thin book, more specialized, is H. W. Yoxall, _The Wines of Burgundy,_ Penguin, 1968 [1974 p'back], ISBN 0140462007. 2nd edition,

1978, ISBN 0812860918. Yoxall is known for his wry comments. (He also wrote the preface to the 1978 reissue of Saintsbury.)

Your health -- Max

-- Sparkling Moselle became a thing to be very carefully chosen or avoided altogether; the `floweriness' of both sparkling and still had a horrible suspicion of the laboratory. (Sainstsbury, _Notes on a Cellar-Book,_

1920.)

Chris, You've received some very good advice already. I'll add a few additional thoughts:

1. Since you're in Ontario, you might benefit from Natalie McLean's newsletter "Nat Decants." See
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   for information. She discusses the current offerings of the LCBO and focuses quite a bit on cost-effective wines available from the LCBO.
2. For budget-minded reds, stay away initially from California Cabernets and Pinot Noirs and Burgundies. Although the more famous wines of Bordeaux will be out of reach financially, there are plenty of decent, inexpensive wines made in Bordeaux that are worth trying. Zinfandel and red wines from the South of France, Spain, Italy, Australia, Chile and South Africa are all good places to look for value in red wine.

Mark Lipton

Chris,

Everyone so far has added several good ideas. As for myself, living in Japan, I can tell you that the Wolf Blass was a bad idea. Greg Norman Estates Shiraz would have been a better deal. Here we can get that for about 4000 yen (40 USD) and it is perfect for a puff of a Monte Christo. Now for my two yen worth...

I prefer (by far my favorite) a peppery wine by the Alkoomi Estates in South Western Australia. The name is Blackbutt (yes, black butt)...best years so far 1997 & 1999. Both very good years for Oz wines. This is a very peppery, curant tasting wine that is full bodied with great flavor. The bottle is cosmetically appealing as well (not that it matters, but after the taste has been confirmed it just adds to the ambiance.

Now, for a great time...an awesome Chilean wine that a friend of mine introduced me to is the Montes Alfa (spelled Alpha in some locations). the 1997 of this awesome wine is the best I have had so far...I have tried 97, 99, and 2001. This will just overly complement your full bodied cigar. Hoping you are doing real Cubans and not some knock offs.

Well..anyways...I hope you definitely try the BlackButt. If you can not find it where you are...try Nicks Wine Merchants in Oz... The ship everywhere and have a great price!!

Cheers! Wils> Hi there,