Tipping my be out????

I agree Ian. However, (maybe it is the American coming out in me) I find that for really worthwhile service, I will tip in Europe. Often, this tip is waved off, and I make a point to the server (could just as well be a London cabbie, as the sommelier at a 2* restaurant), and explain that the person has gone beyond my expectation for service. I usually loosely base the tip on the US standards. I hope, that by doing this, I am not setting a bad prescedent in Europe. I also hope that I am not insulting the server in any way, as this is never my intention.

In the US, we are often at resorts, where the hosting organization has included a gratutity to the cost of the resort. In nearly every instance, the staff informs me of this, but if the service goes "beyond" I insist that they accept the "extra." Again, I look upon this as a reward for going beyond, my expectations, which are usually very high. I want the server to know that they have EXCEEDED these expectations, and I appreciate this extra effort.

Again, I hope that I am not corrupting the system, which has been in place for many centuries in Europe, but feel that these folk deserve something extra, for something extra. While it is EXPECTED in much of the US, I would never wish to tip a cabbie in Wash DC 15% for the minimum of service, and slight a cabbie in London, who carries all of my wife's baggage to the curb-side-check

-in at Heathrow. The same for the Sommelier, who pours over his list of wines, and all of our guest's orders, and works hard to get the best value wines, paired with a broad spectrum of meals, to the table - then servers them all well.

In *very* general terms, I usually find the overall service in Europe to be better than in the US.

Hunt

I too find service mostly to be better in Europe.

I sometimes think that those that are overly cost conscience about the gratuity being included are just cheap an really have a hard time with someone making a living.

To me its about the "haves" want to make sure everyone is a "have not".

If the service was actually bad you would likely speak to the manager and explain why you thought it was bad and they would typically comp the meal if service was really bad.

The only question I would have is which would be the right way to show the charges:

I prefer the first but either would be fine with me.

Dick, you're a closet liberal! Don't worry, your dirty secret is safe with us. :)

FWIW, I agree about tipping, and service in europe (generally). I think servers are professionals and should be treated as such, with a salary.

Hunt, it is generally considered bad form to leave an additional restaurant tip here in France. Never been quite sure (as a foreigner) about the exact logic behind this, but I've been told that an extra gratuity should be small enough to be interpreted as a token of appreciation, not an additional payment.

-E

I prefer to call it a progressive republican. :-)

Tipping is a ridiculous system which misrepresents the true cost of service and food in restaurants. I wish it would go away. I'd rather see the real prices on the menu and not leave the pay of servers up to customers. Few other businesses pay their employees this way.

Service would not drop if managers paid proper attention to hiring, training, and discipline. Sure, servers can grab cash in the long run, but the restaurants really benefit by underpaying their staff.

Why in the world is this system still in place???

Nellis Paris

"Hunt" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@news1.newsguy.com...

Sorry Hunt, the waiters probably will talk about "this crazy American" and expect the next one to tip as well without returning any extra service... Each European country differs from the others, so you should indeed check for local customs. For Norway you'd round off to some suitable amount, say from 925.- till 1000.- if the service was good, 950.- would do for less than adequate service but is still a tip.. Anders

Thank you Anders. I guess I am close to causing an international incident. I just hate to think that some slouch in NYC, USA would get 15% off of me, and some great server in UK, FR, etc. would get nada. It just doesn't seem fair. I try to find the local custom, and probably do tip *down* a bit in Europe, but I just can't get away without saying a special "Thank You." Guess I'm just the stereotypical American, though hopefully not too "Ugly." I also don't wish to condition anyone to offering less than they would normally, and expect more compensation. I realize that the slope is getting very slippery for me.

Thank you for the clarification, Hunt