TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)

This wine comes frome the same stable as Pichon-Lalande. I have not been impressed too much by recent offerings, tasted from cask during the en-primeur-rodeo in the spring after the vintage, but

M.

Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad as it gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2 vinegar, then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato juice.

Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky, Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.

concentration

off-putting.

If you want to try some Eastern Carolina BBQ, King's in Kinston, NC has a web site

I cannot drink wine with the Vinegar base of this BBQ.

Oh, my, Dick! BBQ wars in afw? To me, the beauty of BBQ is the incredible variety to be had traveling across the US. KC is as different from Memphis as rural Alabama is from Carolina lowlands. And then there's Texas... FWIW, some of my favorite BBQ experiences were found traveling through Alabama and Mississippi, where it seems that the best BBQ place was always to be found next door to the taxidermist! ;-)

Mark Lipton

Thanks for the tip. If my cravings overcome me (which they might!) I'll give it a try. Betsy just spent a week doing concerts in NC, I thought about giving her a cooler to load up, but between luggage and cello she had enough to deal with.

I could see that. My tendency is beer, though I have found off-dry Riesling to work. In any case the secret if drinking wine is to go easy with the sauce. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I confess to liking most styles, even if Eastern NC BBQ is one that brings me most memories (more college than childhood). But it's fun to tell a couple of native Texan friends "beef brisket!?!?- that's isn't barbecue!" The only style I usually pass on is KC when then stuff is truly drowned in sauce (more judious KC BBQ wins my approval).

As to taxidermists, you must have been in more upscale parts of Alabama than my grandfather - there was nothing left to stuff when they were done with game (and no money to pay anyone anyway!).

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I agree. Wine does not taste well with douche'

Therefore Beer is best with Carolina BBQ.

Now how did I miss out on _this_ thread?

FWIW, I agree with Dick. The folks on the Southeastern seaboard are _really_ nice - but from what I've tasted they do a truly _horrible_ job of BBQ. Just what _is_ that sour, mustardy sh__ they put on it anyway? And what's with the dill pickle slices? Why is the meat so dry? Bleacch!

The farther West you go, the better BBQ gets. The best BBQ I've ever tasted is from a little hole-in-the-wall nearby in Glendale, CA, called "Pecos Bill's". It's been there for over 50 years, handed down from father to son. I think they were originally from Oklahoma. Their beef is sooo tender, juicy and smoky - utterly delicious! Great baked beans too.

Tom S

Now wait just a minute...every one knows real BBQ is with Pork!!!!:-)

Not to prolong this too much, but I don't know where you were eating! Mustard sounds like South Carolina (yet another genre). I've never actually seen dill pickle slices on BBQ In any region). Good BBQ is never dry, but bad preparation is possible anywhere (I had Texan BBQ once that had brisket as chewy as skirt steak-I couldn't figure out how they managed that).

The major American regional BBQ styles I know:

North Carolina - slow-cooked pork. Meat is shredded or chopped, never sliced. a) Eastern- pork shoulder or whole pigs, with thin sauce of vinegar with salt, hot pepper flakes, and a little sugar. Served on plates, on on buns with a (no mayo) coleslaw b) Western- mostly pork shoulder, with a little tomato in the sauce (but not enough to make it thick).

I wouldn't call South Carolina a major style, but its pork shoulder with a vinegar, molasses, & mustard sauce.

TN/Memphis Dry rubbed ribs.

Kansas City Wet ribs. Thick sweet sauce.

Texas Sliced brisket, with a red sauce (more peppery than sweet).

You can certainly find other foods BBQed in each of these areas (most NC places also have chicken, Memphis joints do beef, Texas does lots of animals, as well as other cuts of beef). But these are the signature dishes. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I think the place he refers to is Maurice's BBQ. This is the place that hit national news when he took down the American Flag and replaced with confederate flag while the boycott of south carolina was going on.

Well Dale I tried to stay out of this but my home town is Goldsboro NC, home of hickory smoked BBQ not that gas cooked stuff you get in Kinston or Wilson or Rocky Mount.

But I like it all.

Yeah, you're right - and they also offer that, as well as spareribs.

Tom S

It was actually in Columbus, Georgia. Wasn't any better across the Chattahoochee in Alabama either. >:^P

Tom S

dick wrote: : Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad as it : gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2 vinegar, : then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato juice.

: Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky, : Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.

Dick, Arkansas bbq is pretty good too, along with the Memphis style which is definately *my* favorite.

:> The next night David is dining with friends, and I can't stand the idea of :> cooking for myself (pre-Betsy I did it all the time, now it makes me : lonely). :> So I invite some friends over for dinner, and grill a big chewy but : flavorful :> London broil, along with squash. While we're grilling, we have the 2002 : Clos :> Roche Blanche Sauvignon Blanc (Touraine). Seems fruitier/riper than other :> recent vintages of this, lemon/citrus notes with a surprising tropical : edge. :> Usually I love 2002 Loires, and this is good, but to my tastes no better : than :> other recent vintages. Still, great QPR at $10ish. B+ :>

:> Then we give the Peyrot another shot. A day has taken the edge off the : tannins, :> but I still don't like. Low-acid yet with a green herbal edge to it. : Let's :> look at label: made by Didier Delas, selected by A. Urbini & partners, :>

:> Luckily, I also decanted a 2000 Bernadotte (Haut-Medoc) to go with the : meat. :> The firat two times I tried this (immediately on release, one of the first : 2000 :> Bordeaux I tried) I was not especially impressed, and wondered re travel : shock. :> The bottles since have been delightful for a $15 Bordeaux. Aromatic nose : of :> smoke, cherries,and cedar. Good red fruit and balanced acidity, moderate : cedary :> oak and some tobacco notes. Nice finish. B+ :>

:> During dinner we had a discussion of BBQ (as a NC boy I had strong : opinions, :> coming down in favor of the Eastern NC style of pulled pork). So when the :> following night at 8 pm I found myself again facing the prospect of eating :> alone, I decided to not cook and picked up some prepared "pulled pork BBQ" : and :> coleslaw. I know, I know. Stuff was pretty dreadful - as far from Eastern : NC as :> you could get, a sweet-tomatoey sauce. I choked it down, and consoled : myself by :> opening what I thought was a 375 of 2001 Roumier. As I poured I realized : it was :> in fact the 2000 Roumier Chambolle-Musigny. In any case, nice perfumed : nose, :> black cherry and raspberry fruit, nice balance. There's a clear mineral : edge to :> the finish. Horrible with the so-called BBQ, so I stick to water. Finish : the :> Chambolle while listening to Elvis Costello and Neil Young, nice when the : stuff :> you're drinking and the stuff you're listening to both grab your attention : (in :> a good way). I know 2000 isn't a "hot" vintage, but I really like this : wine. A- :>

:> Sunday Betsy's still away, but I get some socializing in by brunching with :> friends at an Indian place. That night David is home for dinner. I decide : the :> appropriate meal for male-bonding is burgers, so throw some buffalo : burgers on :> the grill. I open the 2002 Castaño Hecula (Yecla). This is my favorite of : the :> Castano's, I like better than the slightly cheaper Monstrell or the : slightly :> more expensive Solanera. Big red fruit, moderate tannins. Good : concentration :> for the price, though there's a sweetness here I find a little : off-putting. :> Still, a decent burger wine, worth it's $11 tag. B/B+ :>

:> Luckily Betsy got back this AM, so I have a couple of days of real cooking :> before she leaves for concerts in Maine. :>

:> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent : wine, B a :> good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party : where :> it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, : accuracy, :> and certainly not of consistency. :> Dale :>

:> Dale Williams :> Drop "damnspam" to reply

Memhis/Tennessee/Ark is all about the same from my experience.

: Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky, : Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.

Dick, Arkansas bbq is pretty good too, along with the Memphis style which is definately *my* favorite.

:> The next night David is dining with friends, and I can't stand the idea of :> cooking for myself (pre-Betsy I did it all the time, now it makes me : lonely). :> So I invite some friends over for dinner, and grill a big chewy but : flavorful :> London broil, along with squash. While we're grilling, we have the 2002 : Clos :> Roche Blanche Sauvignon Blanc (Touraine). Seems fruitier/riper than other :> recent vintages of this, lemon/citrus notes with a surprising tropical : edge. :> Usually I love 2002 Loires, and this is good, but to my tastes no better : than :> other recent vintages. Still, great QPR at $10ish. B+ :>

:> Then we give the Peyrot another shot. A day has taken the edge off the : tannins, :> but I still don't like. Low-acid yet with a green herbal edge to it. : Let's :> look at label: made by Didier Delas, selected by A. Urbini & partners, :>

:> Luckily, I also decanted a 2000 Bernadotte (Haut-Medoc) to go with the : meat. :> The firat two times I tried this (immediately on release, one of the first : 2000 :> Bordeaux I tried) I was not especially impressed, and wondered re travel : shock. :> The bottles since have been delightful for a $15 Bordeaux. Aromatic nose : of :> smoke, cherries,and cedar. Good red fruit and balanced acidity, moderate : cedary :> oak and some tobacco notes. Nice finish. B+ :>

:> During dinner we had a discussion of BBQ (as a NC boy I had strong : opinions, :> coming down in favor of the Eastern NC style of pulled pork). So when the :> following night at 8 pm I found myself again facing the prospect of eating :> alone, I decided to not cook and picked up some prepared "pulled pork BBQ" : and :> coleslaw. I know, I know. Stuff was pretty dreadful - as far from Eastern : NC as :> you could get, a sweet-tomatoey sauce. I choked it down, and consoled : myself by :> opening what I thought was a 375 of 2001 Roumier. As I poured I realized : it was :> in fact the 2000 Roumier Chambolle-Musigny. In any case, nice perfumed : nose, :> black cherry and raspberry fruit, nice balance. There's a clear mineral : edge to :> the finish. Horrible with the so-called BBQ, so I stick to water. Finish : the :> Chambolle while listening to Elvis Costello and Neil Young, nice when the : stuff :> you're drinking and the stuff you're listening to both grab your attention : (in :> a good way). I know 2000 isn't a "hot" vintage, but I really like this : wine. A- :>

:> Sunday Betsy's still away, but I get some socializing in by brunching with :> friends at an Indian place. That night David is home for dinner. I decide : the :> appropriate meal for male-bonding is burgers, so throw some buffalo : burgers on :> the grill. I open the 2002 Castaño Hecula (Yecla). This is my favorite of : the :> Castano's, I like better than the slightly cheaper Monstrell or the : slightly :> more expensive Solanera. Big red fruit, moderate tannins. Good : concentration :> for the price, though there's a sweetness here I find a little : off-putting. :> Still, a decent burger wine, worth it's $11 tag. B/B+ :>

:> Luckily Betsy got back this AM, so I have a couple of days of real cooking :> before she leaves for concerts in Maine. :>

:> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent : wine, B a :> good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party : where :> it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, : accuracy, :> and certainly not of consistency. :> Dale :>

:> Dale Williams :> Drop "damnspam" to reply

I'm mostly familiar with Eastern NC. I was working at an Army base on the edge of South Carolina and Alabama, the locals invited me to have some "real" BBQ, from southern Alabama. I told them that I had tried some BBQ in Huntsville, Alabama. Their comment: "You mean some of that d--n Yankee BBQ?" I figured if they thought of Huntsville as Yankees, I'd better not talk about living in southeastern Virginia! We went on a lot of back roads, pulled in to a place that looked like nothing had ever been washed in years, and were served something that they claimed was good BBQ. I couldn't get past the place itself, if they had been rated by the NC Health Dept, they would have gotten a ZZZ rating (never saw anything in NC but A and B). I do know that I like BBQ from New Bern, Kinston, Goldsboro, Greenville, Rocky Mount, and Wilson. I think I'll try your suggestion of a semi sweet Riesling, I like those anyhow, sounds like a good combo. Jim