TN: NYC offline/potluck

Dec 09, 2003 20 Replies

A fall blizzard brought with it a lot of work headaches, a lot of shoveling, and a lot of Basset-toweling (low-slung dogs in 16 inches of snow are a bit messy). But by Sunday AM, things looked clearer. Betsy started cooking duck legs with a Dijon mustard crust, and we took her mom to Newark airport to fly home to sunny CA. We got back home, walked the dog, and shoveled some more. Then we loaded up the duck legs, some bitter greens, and some wine, and jumped on a train to the city. A little walk west from Grand Central brought us to Jay Miller's, where the party had already started. I'll do my best to accurately note the wines, but please excuse any missteps. I immediately filled my plate with some delicious quiche, a mysterious (to me) but good seafood appetizer, and assorted cheeses, and filled a glass with:


1996 Pinon Vouvray Sec Apple pie with a twist of lemon, slightly bubbly with a nice earthy overtone. Betsy surprises me by saying she really likes it- with the exception of stickies, she has usually not cared for Chenin. B+/A-

Then on to:



2002 Heidler Steinhaus Riesling (Kamptal, I'm sure, though I didn't write down) Lime and apple fruit, balanced, long smooth finish B+


2002 Nikolaihof Steiner Hund Riesling (Kremstal) Not giving a lot on the nose, but nice citrus fruit and stoney mineral on palate. There seems to be some controversy about this one, but I like. Needs time, long life ahead B+



The suggested wine to drink with b'stilla (Moroccan rolls, kind of spiced poultry , I think, in a flaky phyllo covering dusted with sugar- delicious) was the 2002 Icardi Moscato d'Asti "La Rosa Selvatica". Sweet even for MdAsti, nice flowers and citrus fruit, a little too sweet for me, but nice.B



Next was 1998 Müller-Catoir Scheurebe Spätlese (I can’t read my writing for actual vineyard, though pretty sure Haardter is first word) There’s a big debate about whether this is corked. Doesn’t seem to be corked to my moderately insensitive nose, but it is a bit strange – somewhat herby notes in some tropical fruit (guava juice?). I’ve never been a Scheurebe-lover, except for one BA that was phenomenal, so take with a grain of salt. B-



About this time we segued into a pumpkin soup with bacon, followed by a a pumpkin casserole (both tasty)


1993 López de Heredia Tondonia Rosé Very nice, red fruit and flowers, charming. B+

Next up were Betsy’s duck and some tandoori chicken, time to go red:



1986 Gentaz-Dervieux Côte-Rôtie Light red cherry fruit, no real C-R character that I can ascertain. I find it ok in an inoffensive way, but not compelling. Later the more sensitive declare it mildly corked (I would have given a B-/C+ otherwise)


1988 Jasmin Côte-Rôtie Much better- violets and smoke on the nose, good berry fruit with some bacon fat and coffee. A-


2001 Clos Roche Blanche "La Closerie" Touraine Light, bright, tart, with bitter cherry/raspberry fruit. Zero idea as to cepage (though since its Loire I assume it's malbec/cot, pinot noir, gamay, & cab franc or some combo). B


1997 Domaine de Perruche Saumur-Champigny "Clos de Chaumont" very nice -ripe dark fruit, a little earthy. B+



Somewhere in here, in the midst of discussions of old science-fiction series, the Catskills, and Cuban restaurants, I suddenly wander into a conversation by a med student re a recent visitor to an emergency room , who was apparently in for genital self-mutilation (or possibly self-circumcision - I didn't want to ask for clarification). I try to back out of the conversation, but it has me trapped. To escape, I fill my glass with:


1995 Contino Rioja Gran Reserva Hey, nice Rioja. Blackberry fruit, vanilla, medium-bodied and smooth. Oak is omnipresent yet integrated. B+

Forgetting that our host was grenachaphobic, I had brought the 1995 Ch. De St Cosme "Valbelle" Gigondas . Tony Fletcher mentions it seems closed, and I think he's right. Some air and coaxing brings out some red berry and lots of cedar. Tony and I think it needs 3-5 years, Brad opines that the fruit will never last longer than the oak. A cautious B.



My other contribution was the 1993 Ph.Gavignet Nuits St. Georges Les Chabœufs. Ripe black cherry fruit, somewhat short finish. A little disappointing. B/B-



The 1999 Branaire (St. Julien) was fairly rich, with blackcurrant fruit, loads of chocolate flavors, and an almost thick texture. I think if I'd had a steak I would have liked more, as it is a B.



I neglected to note the vintage on a Domaine de Durban Beaumes-de-Venise Cotes du Rhône Villages. But thought it a pleasant CdR.



Jay opens one last red, a 2001 Drouhin Beaune–Grèves. A little cold straight from the wine fridge, it opened nicely. Good acidity, pure cherry flavor, quite nice. B+/A-



Dessert was served. Nice comments about a chocolate cheesecake, then Jay served his Peach Cloud. Betsy said this dessert was the most sublime thing she tasted all night- I'm not a dessert person, but will take her word.



I am, however a dessert-wine person, and was ready for the sweet wines. Which started off with a Georgian red. Ah, Georgian wine. Yes, I know you've been all waiting for notes on the NV Tamada Khvanchkura, from the cradle of winemaking. My initial note says "semi-rancid grape juice", but I'm prejudiced in general against sweet reds. I'd give it a D, but that's me.



Redemption for sweet wines came with the 1994 Trimbach Pinot Gris SGN. A little honied apricot, some flowers on the nose, nicely balanced,with minerally finish. Spicy without being overwhelming. B+/A-



Fun night, good food, good wines, nice people. Grade disclaimer: I'm a pretty easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.


Dale



Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply


Ah! The hardships of winter in NYC. I feel for you, Dale -- really! Thanks for the great notes. It's not often I guffaw when reading tasting notes, but you got it twice. The Georgian Red was especially amusing, and it occasioned a "D" from you -- an afw first I believe. And I do envy you that Jasmin C-R....

Keep up the good work, Dale! Mark Lipton

Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

As usual, thanks for the notes.

le/on 09 Dec 2003 04:11:13 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Fall? on 8th december? Does that mean that the USA shares France's rather austere view that winter doesn't start till 21st december (what brits call "Mid winter)?

Well it could be the grosslage Meerspinne, but more likely would be Madelring, Herzog, Herrenelleten or Burgengarten which are the only einzellagen I can find. A quick google search finds that the only Scheurebe wines made in Haardt by Muller-Catoir is in Mandelring. So I'd hazard a guess that's the wine.

I've never been a huge fan of B-de-V reds, however, Domaine Durban makes what is, IMO the very best of the Muscats. Quite by coincidence, I was packing up a box of goodies for my brother (Christmas approaches) and one of those happened to find its way in!

You sound just like Omar Khayyam, though he might have enjoyed the Georgian wine more than you, as Shiraz was a sweet red originally, apparently.

How can one want to *leave* such an interesting conversation? :)

OK, maybe. At least while eating.

Kudos for great report, sir; now, how do I get an invite to the next one? :)

Ewan

No, I had boxed myself into a corner. It might have actually earned an "F" , but it was no worse than the NV Tombstone Red from Arizona, which had previously earned a "D".

Some responses elsewhere from other participants assure me the M-C was indeed corked, and that it was the Haardter Mandelring.

And the cepage on the La Closerie is apparently cabernet franc, cot, & gamay.

Best to Jean, Dale

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Kamptal it is, Langenlois to be precise (Bründlmayer's, Jurtschitsch's and Schloss Gobelsburg's place), but H_ei_dler it is not: Ludwig Hiedler is the guy, as in Riesling and Riedel (and always pronounced as in needle or breeze). The pix of him and his spanish wife on his site

(scroll down) are easily the worst I have ever seen. Believe me, he's much nicer (and she much more pretty) than there!

Ludwig Hiedler's 2002s are the best wines he ever produced.

Absolutely true. Nikolaihof wines are easily those who need longest to blossom up. Quite the contrary to FX Pichler, Prager or Hirtzberger that can all be enjoyed young.

M.

Well, I can't invite folks to Jay's place. But NYC winegeek contigent is pretty damn active (though I only get down once otr If you're in New Haven, NYC's not that far. Drop a line next time you're heading this way, we'll see what's brewing (er, fermenting). Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Oops, sorry about that!

This was certainly quite good, and quite approachable.

Well, this was enjoyable young, but in that kind of "glimpse of the future" mode. It 10 years this should be a STUNNING wine.

Thanks for the correction and the further info!

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

You're welcoms, as always.

M.

[] ] 1988 Jasmin Côte-Rôtie ] Much better- violets and smoke on the nose, good berry fruit with some bacon ] fat and coffee. A- ]

Terrific stuff. You dog.

] 2001 Clos Roche Blanche "La Closerie" Touraine ] Light, bright, tart, with bitter cherry/raspberry fruit. Zero idea as to ] cepage (though since its Loire I assume it's malbec/cot, pinot noir, gamay, & ] cab franc or some combo). B ] ] 1997 Domaine de Perruche Saumur-Champigny "Clos de Chaumont" ] very nice -ripe dark fruit, a little earthy. B+ ]

A nice (and inexpensive) wine from a stellar vintage. Starting to fade a little yet?

][] ] I neglected to note the vintage on a Domaine de Durban Beaumes-de-Venise Cotes ] du Rhône Villages. But thought it a pleasant CdR. ]

Interesting, I don't think Durban has been making this for a very long time (or I remember wrongly!) Of course they are one of the top Muscat BdV producers, and for anyone who can visit, very nice and located IMHO in one of the stunning places of the planet... But I'd love to get a snort of this to try!

[] ] I am, however a dessert-wine person, and was ready for the sweet wines. Which ] started off with a Georgian red. Ah, Georgian wine. Yes, I know you've been all ] waiting for notes on the NV Tamada Khvanchkura, from the cradle of winemaking. ] My initial note says "semi-rancid grape juice", but I'm prejudiced in general ] against sweet reds. I'd give it a D, but that's me. ] []

For reasons that escape even myself I am fascinated by Georgian wines, but have never had a good one. Can anyone recommend something that might be available in western europe? Or has the Georgian industry been destroyed by soviet methods?

-E

: [] : ] I am, however a dessert-wine person, and was ready for the sweet wines. Which : ] started off with a Georgian red. Ah, Georgian wine. Yes, I know you've been all : ] waiting for notes on the NV Tamada Khvanchkura, from the cradle of winemaking. : ] My initial note says "semi-rancid grape juice", but I'm prejudiced in general : ] against sweet reds. I'd give it a D, but that's me. : ] : []

: For reasons that escape even myself I am fascinated by Georgian wines, but have : never had a good one. Can anyone recommend something that might be available : in western europe? Or has the Georgian industry been destroyed by soviet methods?

Emery -

perhaps it's because Georgia *should* be able to make better wines than they do, and for the fact that the country lies in the belt of early civilizations might have something to do with it (along with cool looking script on the bottles!). I confess the solo bottle I had left a lot to be desired: it wasn;t even bottled in Georgia (a Dutch company bought the wines in by tanker and bottled it in Holland). It wasn't as bad as what Dale had, but it wasn't a red desert wine either. Russians have tended to like wines that finish with a sweet touch, so I doubt there was much impetus to ferment dry red wines from there, but the climate could make some nice things. What Georgia needs, besides a noncorrupt government, is a Chateau Musar: something to show the world what those wines are capable of doing.

And Dale, thanks for the notes. You Do live well :)

Mark S

Well, you gotta define winter as something! And in general using the solstices and equinoxes as dividing points gives a reasonably accurate division. We can get snow anywhere from late November to early April, but the heavy falls almost invariably occur between Christmas and mid-March. And this really was a blizzard - it started the 5th, on Saturday the 6th there was a period you couldn't see 50 ft (heavy snow and 40 mph winds), about 16+ total inches by time it stopped Sat evening. I was trying to host a dinner Fri night, while frantically answering phone calls and revising stops for my volunteer groups (trying balance safety of drivers with needs of the homeless). This was the largest snowfall in early December since they started keeping records in 1869.

Yup, another participant assured me it was the Haardter Mandelring.

Yes, the Durban MdBdV changed my mind about the whole style- quite good.

Sweet reds (excluding fortified wines like Port or Banyuls) may not be my fave, but I can at least recognize the quality in a good Recioto della Valpolicella. This was sweet/vegetal/wierd. :)

Are you going to England for Christmas, or mailing that box of goodies?

Best, Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

le/on 11 Dec 2003 15:05:17 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

I know, I wasn't REALLY quibbling (much), thought I did enjoy pointing out that France and the USA share something!!

reasonably accurate division.

I'd argue that the shortest day should be the _middle_ of winter and the longest day the _middle_ of summer, but then I'm only a brit and what do THEY know about real weather.

We can

Muller-Catoir is in Mandelring. So I'd hazard a

Yeah, I was gratified to see that!

I think it's a killer with anything apricot. I do an apricot orange mousse (Robert Carrier) and also a classic tarte aux abricots. Yum. Not a sweet wine for cheese IMOP, though no doubt that will spur someone to find a magic match (I'll be only too happy to taste it).

Going, we're leaving here tomorrow, overnighting in Paris where we may just pop in on the Sapros show and then take the overnight ferry (if the **** fishermen don't blocade the ports again) to arrive chez my brother in time for breakfast.

Just to tell you, we had a night out on Tuesday and had Lièvre à la Royale at the (all new) St Jacques in Argentat it followed Fricasse of Escargots (Jacquie) and potatoes and foie gras (me). Exceptionally I asked if I might bring my own wine - because I wanted to have a big burgundy with the hare, so I took a Nuits, Les Georges '89 from Gouges. BIIG wine, though the nose closed down after it had been opened 15 mins, odd that really. I decanted it here and took it in the decanter. Jacquie gave the match with the hare 5, I gave it 4/5 as I don't think the hare improved the wine enough to justify a

  1. VERY long, and when the chef came to join us for a glass of it at 11.30 pm (4h15 after it was decanted), it was still showing VERY nicely. And who says burgs dont last? This one could easily take several more years of aging. That's another of the bottles I'm taking back to my brother.

Hope to be able to keep in touch via his pooter. If not, see you all just before New Year's eve. We'll be back the 28th, I think.

Perzackly, Ian. I've always felt that a common sense defintion of the seasons would be Spring as Mar-May, Summer as June-August, Fall as Sept.-Nov. and Winter as Dec.-Feb. That still doesn't place the solstices and equinoxes quite at the midpoint of their season, but at least gets closer.

Best wishes to you for a happy holiday season, Ian!

Mark Lipton

winter and

brit and

I've always felt that traditionally the names of the seasons referred to weather conditions, primarily with reference to agriculture. Then astronomers came along and hijacked the definitions. From a weather standpoint, in a place like Tucson, Arizona, where I live, it's crazy to say, for example, that June

22 is the beginning of summer; it's the hottest time of year, and about the *middle* of summer. In other parts of the world, it may well be the beginning of summer, but not here.

It's the summer solstice, but as far as I'm concerned that doesn't make it the beginning of summer.

Personally, my preferred definition of winter is Dec 9th thru March 14th noonish, with spring occupying March 14th PM to May 29th late evening, summer thru Sept 2nd about 10 AM, and fall cruising till midnight Dec 8th.It's the only thing that makes sense. :)

Indeed, Ian, safe travels and happy holidays (though I hope you are able to check in periodically)! Sounds like that Burg was a good start to the pre-holiday season!

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

:>>Fall? on 8th december? Does that mean that the USA shares France's rather :>>austere view that winter doesn't start till 21st december (what brits call :>>"Mid winter)? :>

: I'd argue that the shortest day should be the _middle_ of winter and the : longest day the _middle_ of summer, but then I'm only a brit and what do : THEY know about real weather.

Hehheh, scratch a Brit and you'll find a Celt.

Ian, i agree with you on this winter business: you get to the northern latitudes and november certainly does not feel like autumn. But then, over here it lasts until April, so "midwinter"(Dec 21 or so) wouldn't quite describe the middle of the 6 months of winter we get.

I feel the seasons are pretty arbitrary anyway and quite capricious as well. Best to define the seasons in terms of Vivaldi's music :)

Mark S

Hi, Ian - That's exactly right. It's still Autumn here. It's starting to get cold, and there are still some leaves on the trees.

As well as both being firmly convinced that they make the best wines in the world. ;^D

gives a reasonably accurate division.

That view fails to take into account the phase difference between the dimunition of the sun's energy falling on the land and the actual _cooling_ (or warming, in Summer) of the land. It takes time for such large phenomena to change course; witness such events as steering a battleship or the recovery of an economy, e.g.

Tom S

Really Ian. You are talking like you are from a continental climate, where the lag between the incident solar radiation and the seasons is very short. If there were no lag, the middle of winter would be December 21. In continental Wyoming, midwinter is January 21 (although our only big storm so far this year was on Oct. 31, also two feet.)

In a maritime climate like England, the lag would be longer, so traditionally the coldest three months, "winter", were considered those that followed the winter solstice (implying a lag of 1.5 months).

Tom Schellberg

....Implying a lag of about four weeks between the least solar radiation an dthe coldest day. The lag is a little longer in New York and Indiana (lake effect) than in Wyoming or Minnesota.

Tom Schellberg

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