Are these juice pH and TA levels acceptable?

Yesterday I drove 1 1/2 hours to get juice, but came home empty when I read the following numbers:

Isabella Blackberry: TA .98, pH 3.2

Diamond: TA .85, pH 3.0

I am asking if I was overly-cautious, and if I should consider going back to pick up this juice. Will cold-stabilization make this drinkable?

Thanks all, Ken

Reply to
Ken Anderson
Loading thread data ...

I would not be concerned with those values, especially the Diamond. I am making Diamond now. My TA and pH were reported to be 0.92% an 3.0 but when I measured they were 0.79% and 2.75 pH. (This was from Walkers in Forestville NY; keep in mind they keep this cold so the values they state may be a bit higher than what you end up with.) I use Lalvin 71B since consumes some malic acid naturally.

Both are often made sweet so higher acid is not an issue. If you are considering making them dry you may have to either ameliorate or deacidify. I can't imagine the Diamond dry; it's not foxy like Concord but it's not a vinifera either. It's a great grape nontheless; I blend it into Central Valley grapes that lack character at times.

I have no experience with blackberry; I can tell you it's dominant acid is citric and 1 to 1.5% TA is considered normal. Cold stabilization only affects tartaric, I can't say it would do anything for this but it may not be necessary. Sugar covers a multitude of sins...

Joe

Ken Anders> Yesterday I drove 1 1/2 hours to get juice, but came home empty when I read

Reply to
Joe Sallustio

Thanks Joe. This juice is indeed from Walker's. Their website speaks glowingly of the Diamond and Isabella Blackberry wines. I'm mostly an all-grain brewer, but am going to dabble in winemaking again this year. I've purchased Wyeast Chablis and Pasteur Red already, so I'd better find some juice for it! Ken

Reply to
Ken Anderson

Ken, They keep the juice very cold at Walkers, those values they print on the wall tend to drop. (At least the grape wines, the berry seems in the ballpark already.)

The Diamond makes a great sweet wine, I make it often. If you want to try something dry you may want to consider the Traminette too.

I dabble in beermaking; I will try whole grain soon.

Joe

Reply to
Joe Sallustio

`I believe the dominant acid found in blackberries is malic. I took a quick look at blackberries in J. J. Berry, First Steps in Winemaking and also go to Jack Keller's web site and look at

formatting link
According to this 20 to 30 percent of the malic acid is removed during fermentation. Aubrey

Reply to
atjo

`I believe the dominant acid found in blackberries is malic. I took a quick look at blackberries in J. J. Berry, First Steps in Winemaking and also go to Jack Keller's web site and look at

formatting link
According to this 20 to 30 percent of the malic acid is removed during fermentation. Aubrey

Reply to
atjo

TA's around 10 g/l (1%) are typical for blackberries, as Joe notes. Blackberries are also typically malic acid dominant (though this does depend on variety, climate etc). Cold stabilisation won't do much for this kind of wine. You will have to use other strategies if you're intending to make a drier wine (e.g., chemical deacification, MLF, malic-eating yeast, dilution/ameleoration etc).

Jack's site: "One way to do this [reduce malic] is to subject it [the must] to fermentation, as 20-30% of the harvested malic is respired during fermentation."

This sentance is very misleading as a it appears in Jack's text - and in many/most cases would be plain wrong. The reduction of malic acid during fermentation is highly dependent on multiple conditions (e.g. presence of MLB, presence of Lactobacillus, yeast strain, etc). It is common to see TAs *rise*, not decreae, during fermentation in low/non-tartaric musts (such as blackberry).

Ben

Improved Winemaking

formatting link

Reply to
benrotter

I got the citric reference from a Penn State Winemaking book, it's not the only mistake it has in it if malic is dominant. I use Lalvin 71B yeasts on higher acid musts because it has a tendency to consume malic per the Lallemand website. Maybe that is what Jack was getting at.

Here is the link:

formatting link

Joe

Reply to
Joe Sallustio

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.