More pH/TA Questions (for Tom S. and Others)

ML goes easier at higher pH and/or temperatures. Judging by the rise in pH you've observed, I'd guess that you already have ML going spontaneously.

Yes, but that may not be necessary. BTW, have you followed the thread re degassing samples prior to TA measurements? One other point is that you may need to chill the excess bitartrates out of the wine to get accurate readings on TA.

Tom S

Wow... 1) I want the Enoferm ML bacteria to be the predominant bacteria. If ML is starting prior to my pitching the bacteria, can I still pitch the Enoferm Alpha? Will it take?

Thanks Tom,

-Paul

Yes, but it may not end up the dominant strain in the fermentation. This highlights the importance of good clarification of the juice after pressing. The cleaner your juice is prior to fermentation the lower the populations of things you don't want in there.

Yes and no. The excess potassium will eventually chill out of solution, taking with it a titrable proton per molecule and thereby reducing the TA. This _may_ affect the pH somewhat, but even if the pH rises a little it'll still be within acceptable limits. You're doing ML so you wanted soft and buttery anyway, right?

Tom S

When I purchased the juice from the vineyard, it was stored in a large steel tank in a very cold room (~40f?). The juice had been there for a number of days. Another wine maker was ahead of me purchasing a carboy of Chardonnay. When the woman was filling his carboy he looked at it with a furrowed brow and said, "My God... how long has that juice been sitting?" The lady said she didn't know.

The juice that flowed into the carboy was clear... not cloudy. The winemaker was surprised because he didn't expect to see it so clear. After my 12 gallons were in the demijohn, it wasn't crystal clear like a finished wine, but I could see through one side to the other. After letting it sit for the evening, I saw nothing settled to the bottom of the vessel. It took over a day at room temperature to rise to 65f.

Is this considered "clean" or "clarified" juice? Because of that winemaker's comments, I intended to take a chance and do sur lie/batonnage on the lees that's thrown during primary. I'm assuming this is "fine" lees and not "gross" lees, as we discussed a few weeks back?

Based on this description, will this be a benefit towards the Enoferm Alpha being able to become the dominant strain? If I pitch more than the recommended amount, will that help in this process?

...and oaky - ABSOLUTELY!!! That's my favorite type of Chardonnay!

The wine was verified at a lab this morning as having a pH of

Does this plan sound okay to you? Any suggestions, please share.

Thanks, Tom, for the help. If it comes out good, I'll ship ya' a bottle! :-)

-Paul

If everyone who Tom helped shipped him a bottle, he'd be overrun with wine.

Lee

Paul, I would certainly consider your juice as "cold settled" or as you stated clarified. Cant help you with the ML cultures- I put them in and make sure they finish and that's about it. If I dont put them in sometimes they still go, and so far to no ill effects. John Dixon

populations of

You can't do much better than that.

Because of that

Yes, but there will be considerable volume of "fine" lees.

Can't hurt.

I'd add kieselsohl to that fining regimen and do the cold stabilization _after_ fining, so that the bitartrate crystals will tend to form on top of the fining lees and trap/tamp them down.

Tom S

Thanks for the reply, Tom...

I'm dealing with an issue of timing. I cold stabilize in a garage, which is only cold enough to precipitate the potassium through early March. So, I was thinking of cold stabilizing in December or January so I can take advantage of the garage, then long term ageing. I thought I read someplace it's okay to long term age with bitartrate in the carboy... perhaps not with the finings though? Batonnage with finings is a strange concept.

Perhaps a modification to this regimen would be to let it sit until late February, then cold stabilize while the garage is ~30f or so. Suggestions?

Couple of more quick questions... I've never used kieselsohl before; I'll read-up on it. Should I add it to the Bentonite and isinglass finings, or add the Bentonite with isinglass, rack, then add Kieselsohl and rack? Is it okay to blend all the fining agents and pitch them at the same time?

Last question (thanks for tolerating all my questions)... I racked everything to two carboys this evening and everything is going swimmingly. Paper chromatography shows tartaric and malic acids are high with lactic barely perceptible, so ML is either just underway or has not begun. Real _tiny_ bubbles are slowly rising with much larger, faster rising bubbles... don't know if the smaller bubbles are an indication of ML fermentation. Regardless, I pitched the Enoferm Alpha with ACTI-ML prior to racking.

My question is... I was left with barely a quart of extra juice. Should I let this ferment out (ML and remaining sugar), or is it safe to freeze and use later for topping? Or, should I toss it down the drain? Any suggestions on what I should do with this little amount? I have it in a 1/2 gallon jug with airlock at present, with 1/4 gallon of airspace!

-Paul

Fining is normally done last thing before bottling. How can you know what fining regimen to use until the wine has completed oaking? Also, part of the reason for fining is to address the roughness of the wood.

I've never tried that. I add them sequentially, a few minutes apart.

Let it finish fermenting and use it for topping wine. You'll probably need more than that, as you will want to taste the wine during its development. You'll also need some for fining trials, but by then you'll be breaking down a carboy to smaller containers.

Tom S