Better Bottles... Fight! Fight! Fight!

One opinion and two pieces of evidence.

Opinion - a season's storage of a Zinfandel did not seem to detrimentally affect the wine. There was no side-by-side conparison, so that's why it's an opinion, not fact.

Evidence 1 - Because it's plastic, it's a lot safer to move wine in a Better Bottle. Less likely to crack and spill the container, and the container is a lot lighter.

Evidence 2 - Because it's plastic, the sides aren't as rigid and therefore you get a lot more sloshing of the wine when moving the containers about as well as more change in volume with temperature changes. This *might* lead to more aeration and oxygen-introduction to the wine.

It's all I got, and probably less than you need.

Rob

Thanks for the testimony Rob, its a good start. I'm glad to hear it didn't noticeably taint the Zinfandel, though I appreciate without a control glass to compare it with there's no telling

The sloshing when moving the Better Bottle 5/6Gallon is noticeable I agree, even when making moderate position adjustments. Random relocations may stir up more sediment too, so the right care shjould be shown when doing.

Has anyone at all done side by side (Better bottle and glass) bulk aging of the same wine? I am guessing for a few months at a time there will be negligable difference in flavour. I admit I haven't an advanced nose (human version 1.0 model with little experience)

The practicalities in using better bottles over carboys have me fairly convinced that I wouldn't notice a detrimental difference in flavour. The lack of testimonials to the contrary lead me to think that they must produce results that are *as good* (if not the same perhaps) as glass.

I wonder if all the real wine 'heads' have stuck to glass just because that is what they have and what they are used to? If many have tried Better Bottles and found them inferior, you'd have thought there'd be an abundance of testimony already?

Perhaps the technology is still too new to be have found a market amongst experts who are perhaps trained in traditional equipment? I can't imagine that many experienced winemakers have found Better Bottles to equal glass and yet haven't sung their praises too highly in case of peer derision.

Jim

give a fig for the glass carboy approach.

seem - to mynovice nose and eyes - seem to

down when it comes to sanitation and lifting.

ultimately glass will survive as the only

Opinion Oshminion, I'd like to hear evidence.

the difference in results. If that's the

your experiece, Jim

Jim, Are you trolling or serious with those last few paragraphs? This is a pretty civil group. Why would a winemaker, experienced or not buy more carboys if there wasn't a need for more? I have about 20.

I went to their website to find local suppliers but after going to 3 I know, this product wasn't in their online catalogs.

I have no experience with them but I do recall a discussion here or at rec.crafts.meadmaking on them a few years ago. Have you Googled this? I think you would find something on them in rec.crafts.brewing or in our archives. If the brewers like them for beer you are probably good to go on whites at least.

I do make a few carboys of Cab and Syrah each year and wouldn't have any issues testing them. I have an area set up for winemaking so moving them and disturbing the lees wouldn't be an issue. If I see one and it's not too pricey I might give it a shot.

Joe

I recently purchased three more carboys and had the choice of glass or better bottles. I chose glass because I use carboys for long-term storage.

Take a look at conical fermenters. They are either stainless steel or LDPE plastic. Their advantage is you remove the trub at the end of the primary cycle and continue into the secondary cycle without racking. LDPE is more than adequate for this.

Better Bottles are made using an upgrade form of PET and, to the best of my research, are not suited for LT storage of 9 to 12 months.

The general problem with PET (soda bottles) is that while it keeps carbonation in, it does not keep oxygen out long-term. Advances in PET technology has allowed Miller to package beer in upgraded PET with a shelf life of six months.

If you are making Sherry and don't care about oxidization, Better Bottles would be terrific.

HDPE plastics have oxygen barriers, but they are still subject to breakdown due to expansion and contraction.

The reason very few people complain about plastics is the technology has not reached the stage to risk a $150 batch of wine in a plastic LT storage container.

Dick

I think I had this experience. I put a Pinot Noir in a Better bottle and let it bulk age for 5 months. After bottling, I let age another 3 months, now when I open them, I have a brown tinge to the edges, though the taste and nose are fine. Must drink these soon now. sigh.

So next time I bulk age, it's gonna be in glass.

DAve

Dick Adams wrote:

Glass for me is the best due to sanitation and visibility. Very easy to clean and very easy to see whats going on inside.

However I have never bought any glass ware. It has all been given to me.

I always buy PET 5 gallon (UK) containers I can stack them, they have built in handles and I never use them for storage in excess of 6 months. I have had a few near misses of dropping a 6 gallon (UK) glass vessel full of wine. Safety and convenience is my biggest factor!

Also, I just realised "Fight! Fight! Fight!" is a UK comedy reference, the irony of which might have not have been received as intended by those unfamiliar with it...

Jim

sorry as I did, I was trying to encourage

my searches have been fruitless and

find any imformation about the long term

publicity of all aids to home winemaking. If I

assure you. Thanks for all the answers and

experience one way or the other in brewing.

really give a fig for the glass carboy

glass and both seem - to mynovice nose and

bottles win hands down when it comes to

ultimately glass will survive as the only

Opinion Oshminion, I'd like to hear

eyes to tell the difference in results.

easier to use...

your experiece, Jim

Is that like SPAM SPAM SPAM from Monty Python? :*) The UK folks have such cool humor. :*)

Benny Hill is my hero, I d> Also, I just realised "Fight! Fight! Fight!" is a UK comedy reference, the

irony of which might have not have been

sorry as I did, I was trying to encourage

that my searches have been fruitless and

find any imformation about the long term

publicity of all aids to home winemaking. If I

assure you. Thanks for all the answers and

experience one way or the other in brewing.

really give a fig for the glass carboy

glass and both seem - to mynovice nose and

bottles win hands down when it comes to

ultimately glass will survive as the only

Opinion Oshminion, I'd like to hear

eyes to tell the difference in results.

sight easier to use...

your experiece, Jim

irony of which might have not have been

Hi Jim, I had no idea what "Fight! Fight! Fight!" meant but it did seem like you were asking a serious question so I was trying to answer as best I could. There was no offense taken, sorry if I came off that way.

I have no experience with them but I thought Ray Calvert had at least one. You may want to email him, he posts here regularly. He makes a wide variety of wines so if he has one he would be a good resource.

Joe

So those of us not in the know - what's the reference?

Rob, who is eager with anticipation!

I thought about going to PET but stayed with glass because of long term storage. Heavy, but I know what I'm getting at the end. ...my two cents...

Yeah, I can understand that. I will report back in a couple of year as I am doing some in glass and some in PET but it is early days.

Jim

storage. Heavy, but I know what I'm getting at