champagne closures

In a winemaking book the author refers to 2 types of champagne closures; a dark top one and an all white one. The book goes on to say that European champagne bottles require the dark top stopper because of the shape of their neck.
I have a number of Spanish Codorniu sparkling wine bottles and I can only find the white closures. They appear to fit o.k. Has anyone shed some light on this?
thanks
Joe
Reply to
Joe Ae
Joe,
I have made several batches of sparkling wine and use many different types of bottles. Once or twice I have come across a bottle (I think it was the California wine, J ) that will not accept the white plastic "cork." In that instance I just used a crown cap and everything was fine. All the bottles I have come across accept either the 26mm or the 29mm crown caps, and they are great to use prior to disgorgement. Hope this helps. Bryan
Reply to
Bryan M. Everitt
> In a winemaking book the author refers to 2 types of champagne closures; a > dark top > one and an all white one. The book goes on to say that European champagne > bottles require the dark top stopper because of the shape of their neck. > > I have a number of Spanish Codorniu sparkling wine bottles and I can only > find the white closures. They appear to fit o.k. Has anyone shed some > light on this? > > thanks > > Joe
The classic European Champagne bottle has a different size neck than the bottles used in California for sparkling wine. The lip on the neck of the Eropean bottle is a few mm larger. If you use crown caps to close the bottles during bottle fermentation, I think you need to have the larger caps to fit the European bottles, but I've never seen different sized corks (plastic or real) for them.
Andy
Reply to
JEP
thanks for the feedback! > > In a winemaking book the author refers to 2 types of champagne closures; a > > dark top > > one and an all white one. The book goes on to say that European champagne > > bottles require the dark top stopper because of the shape of their neck. > > > > I have a number of Spanish Codorniu sparkling wine bottles and I can only > > find the white closures. They appear to fit o.k. Has anyone shed some > > light on this? > > > > thanks > > > > Joe > > The classic European Champagne bottle has a different size neck than > the bottles used in California for sparkling wine. The lip on the neck > of the Eropean bottle is a few mm larger. If you use crown caps to > close the bottles during bottle fermentation, I think you need to have > the larger caps to fit the European bottles, but I've never seen > different sized corks (plastic or real) for them. > > > Andy
Reply to
Joe Ae
Speaking of this.... We modified a Ferrari floor corker to allow it to insert natural champagne corks. All we did was thread the bottle plunger and attach a piece of aluminum c channel to it to use as a foot treadle. What I do is set up the plunger to insert the natural cork about half way and release the handle. Then I push down on the treadle with one foot and plung again to release the bottle into my hand. I am going to make a 'mushroomer' to flatten out the top of the cork next. It will look a lot like a standard bench mount bottle capper. Real champagne corkers are pretty pricey, I don't make enough to warrant the cost. Regards, Joe > thanks for the feedback! > > "JEP" wrote in message > news:f4e2195d.0401071014.490457ce@posting.google.com... > > "Joe Ae" wrote in message > news:... > > > In a winemaking book the author refers to 2 types of champagne closures; > a > > > dark top > > > one and an all white one. The book goes on to say that European > champagne > > > bottles require the dark top stopper because of the shape of their neck. > > > > > > I have a number of Spanish Codorniu sparkling wine bottles and I can > only > > > find the white closures. They appear to fit o.k. Has anyone shed some > > > light on this? > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > Joe > > > > The classic European Champagne bottle has a different size neck than > > the bottles used in California for sparkling wine. The lip on the neck > > of the Eropean bottle is a few mm larger. If you use crown caps to > > close the bottles during bottle fermentation, I think you need to have > > the larger caps to fit the European bottles, but I've never seen > > different sized corks (plastic or real) for them. > > > > > > Andy
Reply to
Joe Sallustio
>Speaking of this.... We modified a Ferrari floor corker to allow it to >insert natural champagne corks. > >All we did was thread the bottle plunger and attach a piece of >aluminum c channel to it to use as a foot treadle. What I do is set >up the plunger to insert the natural cork about half way and release >the handle. Then I push down on the treadle with one foot and plung >again to release the bottle into my hand. I am going to make a >'mushroomer' to flatten out the top of the cork next. It will look a >lot like a standard bench mount bottle capper. > >Real champagne corkers are pretty pricey, I don't make enough to >warrant the cost. Okaaaaay.... Very related query: I am about to start my champagne style in advance of a mortgage burning party Victoria Day Weekend in 2006. (Yep, plan ahead. That's me!)
How does one get the plastic corks in the bottles? By hand? Or can one use real corks and then the wire cages? I have the Portuguese style floor corker. Do I have to modify this equipment and how? I am *NOT* about to purchase a champagne corker just for this batch! It'll be a 23 L batch.
Thanks, Dr Corinne B Leek Nova Scotia
-- *** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger! *** cleek@ns.sympatico.ca
Reply to
Dr Corinne B Leek
Joe Do you have a jpg of your invention? What is the advantage of natural corks versus plastic closures? > Speaking of this.... We modified a Ferrari floor corker to allow it to > insert natural champagne corks. > > All we did was thread the bottle plunger and attach a piece of > aluminum c channel to it to use as a foot treadle. What I do is set > up the plunger to insert the natural cork about half way and release > the handle. Then I push down on the treadle with one foot and plung > again to release the bottle into my hand. I am going to make a > 'mushroomer' to flatten out the top of the cork next. It will look a > lot like a standard bench mount bottle capper. > > Real champagne corkers are pretty pricey, I don't make enough to > warrant the cost. > > Regards, > Joe > > > > thanks for the feedback! > > > > "JEP" wrote in message > > news:f4e2195d.0401071014.490457ce@posting.google.com... > > > "Joe Ae" wrote in message > > news:... > > > > In a winemaking book the author refers to 2 types of champagne closures; > > a > > > > dark top > > > > one and an all white one. The book goes on to say that European > > champagne > > > > bottles require the dark top stopper because of the shape of their neck. > > > > > > > > I have a number of Spanish Codorniu sparkling wine bottles and I can > > only > > > > find the white closures. They appear to fit o.k. Has anyone shed some > > > > light on this? > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > The classic European Champagne bottle has a different size neck than > > > the bottles used in California for sparkling wine. The lip on the neck > > > of the Eropean bottle is a few mm larger. If you use crown caps to > > > close the bottles during bottle fermentation, I think you need to have > > > the larger caps to fit the European bottles, but I've never seen > > > different sized corks (plastic or real) for them. > > > > > > > > > Andy
Reply to
Joe Ae
> I am about to start my champagne style in advance of a mortgage > burning party Victoria Day Weekend in 2006. > (Yep, plan ahead. That's me!) > > How does one get the plastic corks in the bottles? By hand? Or can > one use real corks and then the wire cages? > I have the Portuguese style floor corker. Do I have to modify this > equipment and how? > I am *NOT* about to purchase a champagne corker just for this batch! > It'll be a 23 L batch.
Corinne -
Why don't you just bottle under crown caps? That's what the Champagne houses use until disgorgement, and some of those bottles remain capped for ten or more years.
Tom S
Reply to
Tom S
Joe, My daughter has a digital camera, I'll get her over here to take a picture. You do not have to modify anything on this style corker though. Use a shim of wood to stop the cork driver so that the cork only goes in about halfway. Lift up the cork driving handle. (Yes, you have the bottle stuck in the corker..) Now step on the bottle plunger with one foot to get it out of the way while holding the bottle. Pull back down on the cork driving handle and you release the corked bottle. It's a bit awkward and my neigbor is a machinist, that's why we modified mine. The problem is the cork is not mushroomed, you need to smash it a bit if you want that look before wiring down. I just prefer natural to plastic but do use both. Plastic is a bit gas permeable. I'm not sure it's good for years, but my sparklers never sit that long so it's a moot point... Corinne The portuguese corker is not able to do this by the way, I have both styles here. Regards, Joe > Joe > Do you have a jpg of your invention? What is the advantage of natural corks > versus plastic closures?
Reply to
Joe Sallustio
>Corinne >The portuguese corker is not able to do this by the way, I have both >styles here. Thanks, Joe.
Tom:
Why didn't I think of using crown caps? Doh! However, for presentation purposes (nothing like hearing a cork pop!), I'll use the suggestion made by Jim Book re: using a rubber mallet technique. I'll use a lightweight kitchen hammer and wrap the head with lots of rag. That should do it.
Thanks, guys!
Dr Corinne B Leek Nova Scotia
-- *** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger! *** cleek@ns.sympatico.ca
Reply to
Dr Corinne B Leek
Joe This will be my first sparkling wine so I want to keep it simple. I was planning to use crown caps for the fermentation and wired plastic closures after disgorgement. It would be interesting to see how you set up your corker. You can mail me the photo and possibly I could try using corks for a couple. Thanks .. > Joe, > My daughter has a digital camera, I'll get her over here to take a > picture. You do not have to modify anything on this style corker > though. > > Use a shim of wood to stop the cork driver so that the cork only goes > in about halfway. > > Lift up the cork driving handle. (Yes, you have the bottle stuck in > the corker..) > > Now step on the bottle plunger with one foot to get it out of the way > while holding the bottle. > > Pull back down on the cork driving handle and you release the corked > bottle. > > It's a bit awkward and my neigbor is a machinist, that's why we > modified mine. > > The problem is the cork is not mushroomed, you need to smash it a bit > if you want that look before wiring down. > > I just prefer natural to plastic but do use both. Plastic is a bit > gas permeable. I'm not sure it's good for years, but my sparklers > never sit that long so it's a moot point... > > Corinne > The portuguese corker is not able to do this by the way, I have both > styles here. > > Regards, > Joe > > > > > Joe > > Do you have a jpg of your invention? What is the advantage of natural corks > > versus plastic closures?
Reply to
Joe Ae
Will do. Plastic closures are fine, I use them too. I push them in by hand; just make sure you get them in all the way. I put the bottle on the floor and just lean on it. Some people get them started and whack them in with a rubber mallet also. If you can't find a wire tightening tool just go to a place that sells cement and get a rebar wire twister, they are pretty much the same thing. They look like an icepick with the pointy end bent at 90 degrees (like a '?' mark) to the handle, the center pivots. Regards, Joe > Joe > > This will be my first sparkling wine so I want to keep it simple. I was > planning to use crown caps for the fermentation and wired plastic closures > after disgorgement. > It would be interesting to see how you set up your corker. You can mail me > the photo and possibly I could try using corks for a couple. > > Thanks .. > > "Joe Sallustio" wrote in message > news:91e0a179.0401130420.191f6975@posting.google.com... > > Joe, > > My daughter has a digital camera, I'll get her over here to take a > > picture. You do not have to modify anything on this style corker > > though. > > > > Use a shim of wood to stop the cork driver so that the cork only goes > > in about halfway. > > > > Lift up the cork driving handle. (Yes, you have the bottle stuck in > > the corker..) > > > > Now step on the bottle plunger with one foot to get it out of the way > > while holding the bottle. > > > > Pull back down on the cork driving handle and you release the corked > > bottle. > > > > It's a bit awkward and my neigbor is a machinist, that's why we > > modified mine. > > > > The problem is the cork is not mushroomed, you need to smash it a bit > > if you want that look before wiring down. > > > > I just prefer natural to plastic but do use both. Plastic is a bit > > gas permeable. I'm not sure it's good for years, but my sparklers > > never sit that long so it's a moot point... > > > > Corinne > > The portuguese corker is not able to do this by the way, I have both > > styles here. > > > > Regards, > > Joe > > > > > > > > "Joe Ae" wrote in message > news:... > > > Joe > > > Do you have a jpg of your invention? What is the advantage of natural > corks > > > versus plastic closures?
Reply to
Joe Sallustio
Thanks for all the usefull advise Joe!!! > Will do. Plastic closures are fine, I use them too. I push them in > by hand; just make sure you get them in all the way. I put the bottle > on the floor and just lean on it. Some people get them started and > whack them in with a rubber mallet also. > > If you can't find a wire tightening tool just go to a place that sells > cement and get a rebar wire twister, they are pretty much the same > thing. They look like an icepick with the pointy end bent at 90 > degrees (like a '?' mark) to the handle, the center pivots. > Regards, > Joe > > > Joe > > > > This will be my first sparkling wine so I want to keep it simple. I was > > planning to use crown caps for the fermentation and wired plastic closures > > after disgorgement. > > It would be interesting to see how you set up your corker. You can mail me > > the photo and possibly I could try using corks for a couple. > > > > Thanks .. > > > > "Joe Sallustio" wrote in message > > news:91e0a179.0401130420.191f6975@posting.google.com... > > > Joe, > > > My daughter has a digital camera, I'll get her over here to take a > > > picture. You do not have to modify anything on this style corker > > > though. > > > > > > Use a shim of wood to stop the cork driver so that the cork only goes > > > in about halfway. > > > > > > Lift up the cork driving handle. (Yes, you have the bottle stuck in > > > the corker..) > > > > > > Now step on the bottle plunger with one foot to get it out of the way > > > while holding the bottle. > > > > > > Pull back down on the cork driving handle and you release the corked > > > bottle. > > > > > > It's a bit awkward and my neigbor is a machinist, that's why we > > > modified mine. > > > > > > The problem is the cork is not mushroomed, you need to smash it a bit > > > if you want that look before wiring down. > > > > > > I just prefer natural to plastic but do use both. Plastic is a bit > > > gas permeable. I'm not sure it's good for years, but my sparklers > > > never sit that long so it's a moot point... > > > > > > Corinne > > > The portuguese corker is not able to do this by the way, I have both > > > styles here. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > "Joe Ae" wrote in message > > news:... > > > > Joe > > > > Do you have a jpg of your invention? What is the advantage of natural > > corks > > > > versus plastic closures?
Reply to
Joe Ae
>> Corinne > The portuguese corker is not able to do this by the way, I have both > styles here. > > Regards, > Joe >
Why doesn't the Portuguese one work?
That's what I'm using for regular corks and I was going to try it for Champagne corks. I've been using plastic stoppers for sparkling wines up to now.
Andy
Reply to
JEP
Andy, On mine, the jaws will not accept the cork, it's too large. If your jaws fit a natural you may be able to do it. Regrds, Joe > > Why doesn't the Portuguese one work? > > That's what I'm using for regular corks and I was going to try it for > Champagne corks. I've been using plastic stoppers for sparkling wines > up to now. > > Andy
Reply to
Joe Sallustio
> Andy, > On mine, the jaws will not accept the cork, it's too large. If your > jaws fit a natural you may be able to do it. > Regrds, > Joe > > > > > Why doesn't the Portuguese one work? > > > > That's what I'm using for regular corks and I was going to try it for > > Champagne corks. I've been using plastic stoppers for sparkling wines > > up to now. > > > > Andy
Thanks Joe. I'll have to give it a try.
Andy
Reply to
JEP

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