Bulk Age longer?

There have been many debates on this topic. My thoughts are that a wine will age more evenly in bulk. The temperature is more stable and the wine will be more uniform, bottle to bottle, once you do bottle it. I age in bulk as long as possible. I remember that C.J.J.Berry recommended to keep it in bulk until a few months before you want to drink it and then bottle. I think that is not a bad model. Takes less room that way and you need fewer wine bottles. Of course you need more carboys.

Ray

difference?

Don and Lisa, I don't know if there is a "correct" answer to this one. I have done it many ways over the years and have arrived the following personal preferences:

(1) Wine ages better in bulk if the temperature cannot be rigorously controlled because bulk is more resistant to minor temperature fluctuations.

(2) A wine should be in the bottle at least two months before drinking to allow the wine time to recover from "bottle shock."

(3) Most wines require four to six in the bottle to develop bouquet. Some require longer.

Using the above "lessons learned," I will typically bulk age a single gallon of wine from six to twelve months, bottle it, and then open a bottle at two months, another bottle at four months, another bottle at six months, and another bottle at eight months. This will give me an idea how much time the wine needs in the bottle.

With a five-gallon carboy, I might bulk age it six months, bottle a gallon, transfer the remainder to a three-gallon carboy and a one-gallon jug, and taste the first bottle three months later. Depending on how that bottle tastes, I might then bottle the one-gallon jug or the three-gallon carboy, saving what is left for a later bottling still. This way you learn what a particular wine needs in terms of aging.

I hope this is helpful.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

When bottling, you subject the wine to pressure as the cork is forced in, then it takes some time to equalize. It this the only shock or is the transfer and air exposure part of the equation?

If you want to drink some of the wine in a short time, say a week or two, would using a screw cap eliminate the shock problem? Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net

Hi Ed,

The bottling shock really isn't related to the cork or pressure but to how the wine itself it handled. Air exposure, agitation, addition of SO2 all appear to make wine a little disjointed or lifeless. This can happen even if the wine isn't bottled but only transfered from one container to another. The wine can seem very different before and after transfer. I don't know if it happens to all wines, but I've seen it enough to put off sensory evaluations of wine if something harsh was done to it recently.

Andy

Thank you, Andy, for stepping in with the answer. I'm trying to bring up a new computer and am having a devil of a time, so have been offline for periods as I switch back and forth between old and new and back to old. I think I've fixed the problems with the new one and should be able to convert over tonight.

Yes, it is the agitation of the wine itself that causes bottle shock, not the pressure applied through corking (which usually equalizes itself within 48-72 hours). I have been told, although I have never experienced this, that a wine can go into a "mini-shock" just from transporting it roughly, although in context these claims were always attributed to very old wines. Anyone else heard of this?

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

Jack, I have heard that statement, and many others like it. I have however transported my wine thousands of miles and could not notice any ill effects. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but not anything readily noticeable to me anyways. John Dixon

Jack, I have not heard that transporting can cause shock, though I am not surprised that this is possible, but I have heard this as the reason you should not store wine in a common refrigerator. Supposedly the vibrations of the motor will keep the bottles in a constant state of bottle shock. I have been suspicious of this but bottle shock is a reality and it just might be true.

Ray

OK. so I guess the idea is that it is best (or at least no problem) to leave the wine in a carboy until say a month or two before wanting to consume. But what is this "Bottle Shock" stuff? Is it something that you can taste? See? Feel? I don't filter, therefor some time in the bottle is helpful to make that final clearing. But besides that the only real bottle shock that I can think of that I realize is just how quickly my wine disappears after it is bottled. It seems to last forever, if I keep it in the carboy, but disappears quickly once bottled.

Bottle shock is the name for the effect noticed when handling wine. If you had a very good bottle of wine and re-bottled or filtered and rebottled it and then compared it to another of the same that had not been re-bottled you would notice the difference. The wine would be said to have bottle shock, the shock of bottling it. Also said to be induced by moving it longer distances or as someone mentioned, storing it in a electric motor/compressor driven fridge.

Don

There's been a lot of discussion around here about bulk aging, bottle aging, bottle shock. My observations with my fruit and vegetable wines is that they throw a lot of sediment in the first 3 months or so (during secondary fermentation, after the more vigorous primary ferment). If I rack once or twice during this time and top-up to get the wine off the sediment, I've noticed my wines become very clear. Then, I leave the wine sit for at least another 4 months in the carboy. Once again though, it depends on the wine, some require more work than others. My feeling is that with some wines, I should probably bulk age longer in the carboy, but I'm working at building up my cellar first. Anyway, my wines stay in the carboy until they are at least 7 months old, then I bottle and leave them sit. Depending on the type of wine, I've found it pays to be patient and let them sit and bottle age till they are at least a year old (avoiding the bottle shock) or longer. I don't have any wine left from my first year, but I'm working at saving a bit more than half from my second year. I think bulk aging and bottle aging are equally important, and as you make more wines you'll get a feel for what works best for you. Darlene

difference?

Darlene, You have spoken a lot of sense that many others will echo on the NG.. The question of aging is a thing that is so clearly experienced by us all..But "bottle shock" -- which is very real -- doesn't seem to have been quantified. Why should a wine, which I sample during bottling, be so insipid and devoid of character that day after bottling? It is usual for me to bottle age for at least 3/4 months before opening but I prefer a longer time. I would like to do a daily test to assess bottle shock --- if someone will provide me with funds -- I will accept the risk to health!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pinky, That's an interesting point, maybe some of the more experienced will be able to quantify "bottle shock" for you. Usually with my 1 gallon batches, I have a glass of leftover wine (after bottling) which I taste and then write down what I think of it (I've never noticed anything wrong with it). I use this description to compare to opening the first bottle after some aging. I think it takes time to recognize how the wine changes from bulk aging to bottle aging. I've never opened a bottle within the "bottle shock" period. But I did notice during my bottling with my early batches that the (supposedly clear prior to bottling) wine in the bottles looked slightly cloudy and then over the next week or so, the wine cleared, so I do think there is something to the "bottle shock". As to a taste difference after bottling, I don't know. I guess we all have our own expectations. My brother sent me some of his wine for a Christmas gift. The grape wine he made in July should be good, but there is about 1/4 inch of sediment in the bottle. I think he probably bottled it too early - should have let it bulk age a bit longer, racked it a couple more times to catch the sediment. He was very happy with it, so who am I to tell him different. I'm afraid I'm a bit more particular...but that is me. Darlene

I would say two, just to be safe.

Don & Lisa, as has been said earlier in this thread, "bottle shock" is when a wine goes totally flat for a period after bottling, although this is really the extreme case. In less extreme cases, the wine (especially whites) acquire an odor identical to oxidized wines, but it disappears after several weeks.

As a wine judge in many competitions, I can usually tell when a wine has been opened and "fiddled with" just prior to competition. The winemaker may only be checking the residual sugar (specific gravity) in the wine to enter it in the proper category, or may be adding sugar to a dry wine to enter it in a sweet wine category, but whatever his or her intentions, the wine is affected. In reds, it tastes flat, or lifeless,

In whites, it also tastes flat, but often with the smell of oxidation without possessing any other characteristics of having undergone oxidation. This is unfortunate for the winemaker, as the wine invariably gets marked down. Also, the wine loses its "bottle bouquet," which takes several months to develop but is quite volatile and easily lost once the wine is opened. When a wine has aroma but no bouquet, I assume it was recently bottled or rebottled.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page

Might be an opportune time to re-post one of Lum's postings.

Don

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Wine ages in two different ways, and each type of aging changes the wine in different ways.

Bulk aging takes place in large storage containers. Small amounts of air are admitted each time the storage container is opened. Small amounts of oxygen are present, and the oxygen slowly reacts with wine constituents producing "oxidative" aging.

Bottle aging takes place after the wine is bottled. Sound corks do not admit significant air, so no new air is present after the wine is bottled. Oxygen is not involved in the this type of aging process. Sometimes, bottle aging is called "reductive" aging (because no oxygen is present) and reductive reactions in wine produce different types of materials than oxidative aging. Only reductive or bottle aging produces "bottle bouquet."

The issue is oxygen, not big bottles or little bottles, and quality wines are both bulk and bottle aged.

Regards, lum

I have experienced it with commercial wines, even those that aren't old. The old ones almost universally have a problem because the sediment will be re-suspended in the wine.

For new releases, the trip from Europe to the US via a ship is suspected of causing considerable bottle shock and current wisdom is to let the wine rest before opening.

Of course, no one has ever accused me of following current wisdom :-), so at times I have opened bottles without a rest and sometimes found the same dulling of the wine. I'll open the same wine a month later to find the wine as I expected, full of flavor.

The problem comes in really determining the cause. Was it bottle shock or was it bottle variation? Could that dull bottle just happen to be the one that, frankly, just wasn't good to begin with? There are also wines that the first 3 or 6 bottles were very good and then the next one just didn't live up to my expectations.

Who knows, but I tend to play it safe now and let all my wines (home made and commercial) rest a month (or longer) before I open one.

Andy