Distilled water, pH and TA

I use grocery store distilled water to dilute wine samples for acid titration and to replace lost volume when I boil off CO2 from samples of wine after fermentation, acid reduction by addition of bicarb, etc. There's been some discussion about this lately so here's the results of a Saturday morning experiment.

I use a Presque Isle titration kit, PI buffers and sodium hydroxide solution. I have an Omega PHH 78604 pH meter with new probe this summer.

Effect of distilled water on wine pH; When I boil off CO2 I replace the lost volume with distilled water and then test pH and TA. Dilute some Brew King Super Tuscan wine with various volumes of distilled water and test pH.

100% wine - pH 3.36 90% wine - pH 3.34 75% wine - pH 3.31 50% wine - pH 3.28

The grocery store distilled water has a pH reading. A freshly opened gallon bottle started at pH 7.5 and drifted slowly down to 5.37 over a 5 minute period. So, it has some acidic properties. Looks like the more distilled water you add to a sample the more it effects pH and the trend is to give lower than expected readings.

Effect of distilled water on wine TA; When I do TA titrations I dilute wine samples with 100 to 200ml distilled water. I don't measure this water and eye ball the amount in my beakers. Test the BK Super Tuscan samples and compare to theoretical. Titrate to pH

8.2 for end point. I measured the distilled water for this experiment.

100ml distilled water, no wine - required 1 drop NaOH solution (0.05ml)

200ml distilled water, no wine - required 2 drops NaOH solution (0.01ml)

100% wine, 100ml distilled water dilution ~ 4.60ml NaOH, 0.69%TA

100% wine, 200ml distilled water dilution ~ 4.55ml NaOH, 0.68%TA 90%wine, 100ml distilled water ~ 4.0ml NaOH, 0.60%TA (theo. 0.62%) 75% wine, 100ml distilled water ~3.35ml NaOH, 0.50%TA (theo. 0.52%) 50% wine, 100ml distilled water ~ 2.2ml NaOH, 0.33%TA (theo. 0.35%)

I thought I might have to routinely run a blank and subtract the volume of NaOH solution required to neutralize the distilled water from that used for the wine samples. But the volume is so low it won't make a practical difference. In this experiment there is a negative bias for actual TA measurements compared to the theorectical. You would think if the acid nature of distilled water made a real difference the bias would be on the positive side.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Reply to
William Frazier
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LOL !!!

Just when I was becoming comfortable testing TA with a pH pen I am having to consider removing CO2 and the affect of the compensating distilled water's pH ... WHOA !

Would it be possible to pull out the CO2 by vacuum, use the sample full strength, and forget about the other variables ???

Okay, my chemistry is pre-primary ...

Roger, Vancouver in the RainForest

Reply to
RogerD

Yep. Just get it all out. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

Reply to
William Frazier

Thanks for the report, Bill.

I'm wondering how much of a pH and TA difference you and others see when removing CO2 and not removing it. As Lum points out, carbonic acid is a weak acid and shouldn't affect readings that much. I know this issue has been discussed many times before, but it seems like there are so many issues involved when you try to replace lost volume after boiling that maybe its closer to forget about the CO2. I don't have an accurate enough pH meter to conduct such tests, so can't report any meaningful results myself. I'm getting ready to upgrade to a better pH meter soon.

Miker

Reply to
Miker

I did some tests on wine toward the end of fermentation and it moved .02-.03 pH after boiling. This is probably negligible. It might matter if there was more co2 in the wine like when the fermentation is more active, but I didn't check that yet. As for the water we have an e-pure water filter instead of distilled water in lab and it is pH 7.7 but it isn't buffered and the wine is so the pH of the water should have a minimal affect on your tests.

-Alex P

Reply to
Alex

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