kieselsol and protein stabilitty

I use Sparkalloid to remove bentonite. Add both then cold stabilize.

I too am interested in kieselsol. Tom S has alot of experience here, hopefully he'll chime in.

Gary Lewis Family Vineyards

I think Tom S always uses bentonite - that's my impression from his posts on fining. The haze should only result if there was too much bentonite used in the first place. In any case, kieselsol has the same charge as bentonite, so my guess is it should also work on protein hazes.

Other than Sparkalloid, isinglass, chitosan or gelatin should all help with bentonite haze.

Pp

Lewis Family V> I use Sparkalloid to remove bentonite. Add both then cold stabilize. >

You have to do bench trials to determine what's best for any specific wine. What worked last year may not be right this year. Sorry if that's not too helpful. :^(

Tom S

Isn't that stuff also used to make dynamite?

Tom S has alot of experience here,

Interesting question. Kieselsohl is essentially silica gel solution, and will solidify over time when it loses a critical amount of water. I suppose it _could_ have applications in explosives, but I'd guess its major application is in winemaking.

Tom S

Tom,

A couple thoughts and questions.

1. I added 1 cup of bentonite solution each to a 5 gallon container and a 7 gallon container of the SAME wine. The 5 gallon container cleared great but the 7 gallon container is now MORE cloudy. Since the 7 gallons is obvious MORE than the 5 I can't see the haze being from too much bentonite so do you have any insight into what's going on ??

1. After you bentonite I've read you throw the Kieselsohl and the gelatin on top of the bentonite before racking. When you do that do you stir vigorously to stir up the bentonite or do you just stir the Kieselsohl and gelatin into the top few inches of wine and let it settle like a net into the bentonite lees? If so, do you have any pointers about how to do that? I plan on adding the Kieselsohl first because of what you said about making the wine seem "sweeter".

2. Is there any danger of the bentonite/Kieselsohl/gelatin lees causing OFF odors if left in the wine too long????

1. If you do get a bentonite haze, what do YOU use to get it out???

2. Do you ever use egg whites for your chardonnay??

I know, it's alot of questions.

As always, TIA,

Bob

Tom S wrote:

In article , Bob writes

Kieselguhr, I believe, or some such spelling. What the difference might be, on the other hand...

Right you are!! I was close but cigarless. It is a synonym for diatomaceous earth and is used to stabilize nitroglycerin so it can be handled. My old brain just doesn't have enough sense to get my facts straight..... Sorry 'bout dat! Bob

Assuming identical wine in both vessels, there are only 3 possibilities I see at the moment:

(1) The fining materials were more different between the two than was apparent,

(2) The difference between 5 and 7 gallons was more critical than you thought,

(3) Your technique when mixing in the bentonite was different enough to make a difference.

Regarding (1), was the second lot of finings from the same batch as the first, just divided between the two, or was it prepared separately from the first batch. IOW, could the preparation of the finings be the critical difference?

Yes. But you don't have to. What you need to do is emulate as closely as possible whatever you did in your trials that worked best.

Not that I've seen, but I only leave it for a few months or so usually.

Isinglass and/or gelatin and/or a plate & frame filter.

No. I'm sure some do though - possibly to good effect.

Tom S

Thanks Tom,

The bentonite came from the same batch just pured into a cup container and added. I always stir the hell out of the delivery container first to make sure it's well mixed before EVERY cup. I used the middle ratio that Presque Isle recommended ( 1.5g/gal ) . I mix the bentonite initailly with a mixer which seems to do a GREAT job and saves my blender. Once in the carboy, I use one of those mixing wands which mixes the hell out the stuff so it was mixed in to both carboys really good. I didn't do "trials" per ce ( i know I should have ) but was was just wondering if you knew what was happening. This isn't the first time this has happened to me so I figured I try and find out what is happening. What I usually do is rack then add more bentonite and it clears BUT I was wondering that if NOT enough bentonite was added, why would it make the wine cloudier, which to me doesn't make any sense. What I haven't done yet is follow with gelatin and see if that clears it up. I'll let you know what I find. Anyway , I definitely plan on doing trials before I add the Kies/gelatin because of the more detrimental effects that gelatin seems to cause if OVER used. I'm also going to experiment with egg whites. I'm still a novice at this fining thing and I will do bench trials with bentonite from now on.

As usual ,many thanks for your time and expertise.

Bob

Any chance this is just due to the difference in the size of the containers?? Looking through a larger carboy requires you to look "through" more wine which could make it look more cloudy than the smaller carboy. ?

Bob, Tom & All, I have been following this thread with some interest. But I am confused. Why would you fine with a wine with Bentonite to remove protein and then add a protein material, such as gelatin, back on top of the Bentonite??? Lum Del Mar, California, USA

Hi, Lum -

I've wondered about that in the past too, but that's the way I learned it many years ago. Apparently, even though gelatin is proteinaceous, it doesn't remain in the wine - at least not in quantity to cause protein instability problems. It ends up in the fining lees, with other large molecules (tannins etc.) stuck to it like socks in the dryer.

Tom S

Thanks Tom, That is a good trick to know. Bentonite lees are so light and fluffy, they are difficult to handle. I try to hot stabilize and then cold stabilize immediately to compact the Bentonite lees. But, this hot/cold procedure is not always convenient, so I will try gelatin the next time I have this problem. Lum Del Mar, California, USA