Pruning and Trellis Systems References - Noobie

You might try "Sunlight ito Wine" by Richard Smart and Mike Robinson or "From Vines to Wine" by Cox. I can't recall ever seeing anything about pendlebogen, however.

A few sites. Your Pendlebogen is mentioned here:

Here's a link with good pic of the system...

CHEERS!!

Thanks for the responses. Sure appreciate it.

Steve - Noobie Oregon

Hey noobie, ;)

It's often good to match grapes with the right trellis system. The pendelbogen is "basically" a VSP but instead of the cane being tied down to the low wire it's allowed to form an arc before being tied at the end of the cane to the low wire. One of the "advertised" advantages is that instead of bud break happening from the end of the cane inward, bud break starts in the middle of the cane which can result in a more even growth pattern. There are some varieties not suited to VSP . What grapes are you growing???

Bob

spud wrote:

Thanks for the response, Bob. They're all vinifera, Savignon Blanc, Chardonay, Cabernet Savignon, Gamay.

We have pretty mild winters here, but on occasion do get single digits in the winter. Certainly would sometime during the life of these plants.

I suppose I shy away from cordon systems becasue of that and am taken with pendelbogen because appears to train two trunks, potentially leaving options open if there is a problem.

Thanks again, Steve - Noobie Oregon

This may be of interest. This vineyard is in my home town.

Spud ( noobie)

Cordons are fine for Oregon. Actually, cordon pruning is used extensively in Washington State. Cordons are actually more winter hardy than canes. You grow 2 trunks which would be "turned at a 90 degree angle" at the low wire to follow the wire. Cordons are really a "trunk" that is allowed to grow up and then horizontally (don't be intimidated by the terminology, they're only plants ;)) , and there isn't anything more winter hardy than a trunk!. you could leave 2 buds below the low wire on the main trunks to grow to canes for "replacements" should the cordon get zapped in the winter. Just leave room in the middle of each vines canopies for these canes which would grow straight up into the above wires. If the cordon is fine next year, prune them back to 1 bud and start again. Temps in the single digits are really not that low especially if it only happens rarely. I'm sure you'll have "HUGE" cordons if those are really the low temps you experience. BTW, there is a theory that the more old wood on a vine the better for the grapes which is also why cordon systems are used.

Bob

spud wrote:

digits

advantages

Forgot to comment on your vines. Sauvignon blanc and Cabernet sauvignon need alot of HEAT to get to the style that you get from California . You'll love the chardonnay. You'll need to spray for EVERYTHING. I don't know much about Gamay but if I were you I'd trade in the sauvignon blanc for some riesling.Also there is a grape called Lemberger which is cold hardy, good tasting AND shorter growing season that CS. Sauvignon blanc needs long growing seasons and is very winter tender. Chardonnay, CS are winter hardy and the Gamay I'm not sure. My best advise based on MY experience is to grow grapes you'll never have to worry about in the winter and grapes that ripen in your climate. I've learned the hard way , I didn't listen and I spent TOO much time and the heartbreak was painful. You might not experience it right away BUT if you make the wrong decisions you will experience it, I guarantee it.

Bob

I am only a hobbiest but one problem I see with cordons is that they would carry disease pressure forward each year. i.e. all the nooks and crannies would be nice homes for diseases and insects to overwinter in. Things like phomposis and the like if present in Oregan could become an issue over time. Plus the accumulated winter damage. Anytime temps dip below -20C some damage occurs. I remember reading that in cool climate you should aim to replace your trunks after 5 years old. Sounds like a pain but it can be managed with multiple trunks.

Joe

Hi Bob:

Thanks for the repsonse.

We have ~2,750 heat units here through September. Is that to tight for Cab or Sav. Blanc? The only reference I have so far says Cab needs

2,500 to 3,000. I guess that is kind of pushing it, isn't it? Not much room for a crummy year.

Thanks Again,

Steve - Noobie Oregon

Spud,

No, According to Jeff Cox's "Vines to Wines" you actually live in the PERFECT area for those varitals. What do the vineyards around you grow??? It would seem to me that you can grow just about anything with those numbers.I don't think you'll have to much of a problem.

Bob

Thanks Bob!

SWMBO picked up "Vines to Wines" for me today. That'll keep me busy for a while.

Take Care, Steve - Noobie Oregon

Spud,

A couple of things I've learned over the years I want to share with you.

1. Jeff Cox's book doesn't really go into spraying so you need to do some research on that. I can recommend a spray program if you don't know anything about it. I'm assuming your climate gets down mildew and black rot which I hear California does not so your going to have to spray for ALL diseases. Japanese Beetles are the other pest I have alot of so see if you can visit a nearby winery and find out what they spray for and what they use. If you can't find it , like I said I'll gladly recommend something.

1. Jeff Cox's book recommends mulching with "gravel" as the best way to grow grapes. I don't recommend that. I HIGHLY recommend mulching with medium to large wood chips ( I get mine for free from a tree company, also WOOD shavings from a horse crap pile are great too) . They keep the water in the soil and they don't cause weeds to grow like hay does. Grape vines NEED water contrary to what some old wives tale say, especially when they are young. They need an INCH of water a WEEK after you plant them ,(don't sweat the exact amount, just make sure they have plenty of water if it doesn't rain HARD that week.) . Now you shouldn't have to worry about over watering them because you should be growing them in a well drained soil, right????;). The more clay you have the less water you need. If you have a soil like clay that holds water I would keep grass in the row middles. Actually, I have VERY sandy soil and I keep grass in the row middles and it works great! The vines roots will go FAR deeper than the grass and there doesn't seem to be any problems with competition for water. I mulch mow so all the grass is returned to fertilize and keep the moisture in the soil. So if you already have grass where you are going to plant them, round-up the grass where the plants will be and mulch over the dead grass.You could also put that "black" cloth mulch down underneath the wood chips to really seal the grass from growing underneath the trellis system but make sure you put AT LEAST 4 inches of mulch. The best time to mulch is AFTER a hard rain so the ground is already soaked so you would be sealing in the moisture. I almost guarantee that if you mulch you will have few nutient deficencies and you;'ll get TONS of worms which is what you want. I also keep the mulch about 6 inches away from the plants on each side BUT the mulch goes inbetween the plants. Now, there are people who will tell you to dig a trench and lossen up the soil 36 inches down all down the row where the vines will be planted. If you can do that go ahead but if your like most people and don't have or can't afford the machinery to do that just dig a hole with a post hole digger down about 2 feet and back fill to where the plants are planted at the same depth they were in the nursery.If they're grafted, plant them so there is about 3 inches from the graft to the soil line. I fill the hole with water before planting then plant and fill with water again.Obviously I use ALOT of water ;). BTW, soak the vines in water overnight before you plant them and try and plant on a cloudy day where the evaporation is low. Actually a light mist would be great. Once planted prune back to 2 buds. Your probably going to get grafted plants so just plant them, you won't have to prune them. The wax on the plants doesn't need to be peeled off , so leave it on., it's there for a reason. Once you plant, then they'll start growing . KEEP THEM WATERED! THe first year you SHOULDN'T need fertilizer . When they bloom the new growth will be shiny and sometimes has a reddish hue. Don't be alarmed it isn't potassium deficiency ;). Like I said if you keep them watered and mulched you will be fine. BUT after the buds break you'll need to start spraying!

Bob

Hi:

Thanks for the great advice. I sure have alot to learn!

Thanks Again, Steve - Noobie Oregon

Any opinions of this book?

"The Grape Grower", Lon Rombough

Thanks Steve - Noobie Oregon

I have the book. It has some good information about grafting. It is a good book to have in your library.

Pendlebogen is a good choice for valuable fruit that is prone to bunch rot and the like especially in high disease pressure areas. It is also known as Vertical Shoot Positioning with arched canes. This newsgroup has listed a number of good viticulture books that describe this technique in detail. i.e Vines to Wines by Cox, General Viticulture by Winkler ... Joe