Making 10 % wine

I wouldn't argue the point given where he is from. I have not made more than 10 or 15 fruit wines though. I would agree with him that most fruit wines seems better at lower alcohols. My strawberry and cherry were well liked at 11 to 12 % but keep in mind he could really measure his alcohol levels, I was using a vinometer. Mine could have been lower than that.

I once made a horrible hard cider with raisins and a lot of sugar, it was closer to rocket fuel than wine. Looked good, smelled good, tasted awful. It was higher alcohol and just not possible to balance. It was a long time ago, I wouldn't have done it the same way today.

Joe

Richard Kruse wrote:

The alcohol levels cited above for grape wines are too low, so I don't see how that supports the main point. It's been a long time since I've seen a grape wine, particularly red, with alcohol under 12% (expections to the rule like German Rieslings notwithstanding). So the real explanation that should be made is why the higher alcohol levels work fine from grape wine as opposed to fruit wines, I don't see that explained in the article.

Pp

I think everything has less tendency to taste bad if it's watered down.

How this guy suggests making a 10% red wine with 24 Brix grapes (14% avg. alcohol) is beyond me. What's the point, anyway? It's not just about the fruitiness of the wine. It's about the complexity. There are definitely qualities and flavors only released into the wine from soaking a bit in the fermented skins while in the presence of alcohol. Tannins, aromas, unami (if you will). Add to that MLF qualities... and oak... and then of course, ageing and flat-out TIME, and you end up with a finished product far different than what you started with.

I'd say that, if you want a fruity grape beverage, stick with Welches. If you want a polished, complex wine, go that route. But please, don't try to blur the wines on the simple notion of alcohol content. Because all you have to do is look at non-alcoholic "wines" to know just how wrong that notion is.

David

I see that you're talking about fruit wines... but still... the argument holds... I've had awesome plum wines, cherry wines, blackberry wines... and they were all well over 10.5%. I think it has a lot more to do with balancing the acids and other factors, than simply the alcohol content.

Let's put it this way. If a fruit *can* ferment beyond 10.5% naturally (through sugar content), and its flavors change as a result of crossing that threshold, then perhaps it's *meant* to taste that way when it completes fermentation.

And you should consider drinking V-8 instead. :)

Cheers,

David

David wrote "Let's put it this way. If a fruit *can* ferment beyond 10.5% naturally

David and others, I belong to the Greater Kansas City Cellarmasters winemaking club. We host an amateur winemaking contest every year. About

1/3 of the wines submitted are fruit wines. There has always been a debate within the club as to whether a fruit wine should taste like the fruit it's made from or if it's OK for a fruit wine taste like "wine" and not necessarily like fruit. If you make fruit wines with lower alcohol and sweeten them a bit they will taste fruity. And, there are yeasts which will promote fruity falvors. If you make fruit wines at higher alcohol levels they will be more wine-like and some people have difficulty telling what the starting fruit was. It's a matter of taste and there's a place for both type wines IMO.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

I was thinking of making wine from V8, assuming you mean the vegetable/fruit juice heh heh. Jim

Hi Bill,

Good points. I'm reminded of the fact that wine -- and any fermented product -- is the result of chemistry and biology. Inevitably, the end result is far different from what it started out tasting like. For example... how often does a finished Merlot or Pinot Noir really taste like the unfermented grapes? Hardly ever. Even after primary ferment, when the sugars are gone and amino acids have been altered, acid levels raised or lowered, etc. And so, it is customary to use terms describing

*other* fruits, flavors, aromas, etc., to help convey what the wine tastes like.

Let's put it another way. I doubt I'll ever see a review for a Merlot in which the reviewer says, "evokes flavors and aromas of fresh Merlot grapes". Point made.

I think it's pushing it too far to hope to achieve a fruity wine product that tastes like the original fruit. Unless you're making a wine cooler. ;)

Just my thoughts.

Thanks,

David

Regardless of some of the coments above (I see no mention of 24 brix grapes in the original artical) I do thing there could be some common sence to Kime's observations. At least they should not be blown off out of hand.

California wines are grown in hot dry climate and tend to be high brix and low acid. They make excelent rich full bodied high alcohole wines. French wines and other Europian wines are made from grapes with a shorter growing season and tend to be lower brix and higher acid fruit and they tend to make lighter, lower alcohle more acidic wine. (I know there are exceptions to both broad statements.) Both are good for what they are.

Between the two types of grape wine I would say that most fruit other than grapes tend to be lower brix and higher acid than either California or European grapes. Hence I would say that they would be closer to European and maybe should be made even lower alcohol.

I know that this is an off the top of my head arguement but to me it suggests that Kime's observations should be considered.

The other side of the coin is that you should make what you like! Kraft your wine to your own taste.

Ray

Ray, that's an interesting argument, haven't thought about it that way. However, most fruit wine recipes I've seen manipulate the must by adding sugar, water, and often acid, so you could bring it to any starting configuration you like in terms of sugar and acid levels, with perhaps some limitations on how much the juice can be diluted for the result to be balanced. Also, I remember from Ben's past posts on fruit wines that they behave differently in terms of acid changes during their life, so that should also influence the comparison.

My guess is it's really mostly a question of style - if you do a dry light wine then 11% is probably ideal. But if you go for a more concentrated fruit with some residual sugar, the alcohol can and probably should be higher - there is a commercial winery here in BC that has a blackcurrant dessert wine with alcohol around 15-16% that's out of this world.

Pp