More astringency needed!

Web Williams wrote "I'm on the second racking of a "Selection International"

Hi Web - I don't make many kits. I did make C. Sauvignon out of a pail of juice about a year ago. The wine doesn't have any astringency that you expect from this grape...it will make some nice wine coolers this summer but that's about it. I don't think you can add something to your wine to provide that huge mouth puckering quality that some C. Sauvignon has. It comes from the grape and I'm sure some C. Sauvignon fruit has more of this quality than others. That said I suggest you contact Presque Isle and discuss this with them. They sell several products that may provide the astringent mouth feel you're looking for.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

In my book, adding 8 ounces of oak is kind of wrong, but more to follow.

Oak will add some tannin but will also add a lot of flavor from the oak. Probably more than I care for, but it will lessen over time in bottle.

An oak barrel on top of the oak you've already added? Way to much for me. Most of the top Bordeaux houses would shudder at even 100% new oak, never mind double oaking like this. Of course some California vintners can take oak to amazing levels.

I think the powdered grape tannin will give you want you want without creating "liquid oak in a bottle". It should provide the astrigency you're looking for without affecting the taste too much.

Probably not. It does add some, but my (very) limited experience with kits is very little tannin from the grapes makes it through to the wine. Powdered tannin will probably give you what your looking for.

Well, yes and no. We generally use dryness to indicate the lack of sugar in the wine, but tannin will cause a drying sensation in the mouth. Even a wine with Residual Sugar can have the drying sensation if the tannin are high and a completely dry wine can lack that drying sensation if the tannin is lacking. The latter can appear almost sweet (due to the alcohol) even if there is no residual sugar.

Andy

Make a TA measurement. Astringency is also a function of acidity which should be in the 5-7 g/l range (maybe up to 8- 9 dependent on preference). If OK I would go for some tannin addition. Oak storage really doesn't to much with astringency. It adds complexity (extracts flavours from the barrel and micro-oxygenate). The astringency has more to to with the contact time between the must and the pulp. Which I think most ready made and sold juices for wine making may suffer.

All this is of course assuming that your wine has really fermented to dryness. You mention that it is to sweet. Are you sure there are no sugar remaining? It would mask astringency.

Hi Web Williams...

I am no wine expert, but I have always found that oaking does not add very much tannings. If fact, I use two different types of oak at two different times. To give a really great vanilla flavor, I use toasted French Oak chips. Be careful, you can 'over oak' but it does tone down some after a couple of months of bottle aging. I also use American oak chips to soften the flavor a bit.

As for adding tannins, I am not versed in this on a first hand basis. I would recommend that you read as much as you can about this process before you try to make any additions.

Cheers,

Paddy-O

Web Williams wrote:

You mention "none of them taste as sweet as this batch" and "not as dry-tasting as I want", did you check the zero on your hydometer?

Don

I did not check the zero, nor do I know how to.... but I measured the water -very- carefully going in to the kit, and the SG measured 1.085 prior to fermenting. At first racking, it was 1.010 (per the instructions, as compared with the number of days, it was right on target). I did not check it prior to or after the addition of the fining agent included in the kit (too busy and not enough time to do that, and I wanted to get it done on schedule by the instructions that came with the kit). I'll check the SG in 7 more days (it will have been clearing for 8 days per the kit instructions) and will see what the final gravity is. I am seriously considering experimenting with the grape tannin. I have one last question before I do something stupid: at what time in the process should the tannin normally be added? I realize the amount would be to-taste, so I am thinking right before bottling so I can add it a few drops at the time and quit when I think it has enough. Would this be a correct assumption?

Thanks very much for everyone's wonderful advice!

-Web Williams > > I toured Bordeaux and tried many French Cabs and none

The tannin I used is from LD Carlson and is powder. I add at the first fermentation. I also have a batch of Shiraz bulk aging that is a lillte lazy and have been considering adding some tannin. My recipes in the past have called for 3/4 tsp for a six gallon batch.

-- KB St. Charles, MO

You should do it while your wine is still in bulk. The tannin can cause some sediments to form and it would be wise to let it stay for some weeks until you know the wine is stable.

What he means by checking the zero is to check to see if it reads 1.000 when you check pure water. If it is off you can adjust your reading by simply correcting all your readings by the known error. i.e. If it reads 1.003 with water then subtract 3 from all future readings, starting and ending.

Ray

---snip

I have been recommended Tan'Cor, Tan'Cor Grand Cru from Scott Laboratories

Before this I used some tannin powder I bought locally with no idea what it was. In the same wine this have added a bitter taste to it. That's when I begun to investigate the different tannins.

There is a whole management in regard to tannins, for use in different stages of the wine production all the way to bottling.

I broke down 30g and did 1/2tsp /5gal, but you have to let your taste guide you. It took a week or so for me to feel the effect of my first infusion.

SG Brix