I've decided that this last harvest is the last one I am going to press by 'hand'. So I've been looking into presses - both traditional ratchet and bladder.
I recall that bladder pressing is 'gentler' which doesn't pull as much tannin. For you bladder pressers, can you validate this?
I have seen that pressing a partial load with a bladder is possible if you partially inflate before adding the must so you get even distribution. Has this been practical for you?
Also need your thoughts on press sizing. How long do you press for? This has implications for how many press loads to size for.
Do you use the bag on the outside of the press or do you press at low enough pressures that it isnt needed?
Do you feel you have better control over press pressure than with a ratchet press?
Lastly, what are your thoughts on best practices for using a bladder press other than the questions above?
Not really. Bladder presses are much gentler on the _presser_ (you) though. :^)
It works, but I wouldn't care to go below ~60% capacity.
I have often left the press under pressure all night - especially when pressing white grapes for juice. The highest Brix stuff comes at the end, and it's also the clearest. You need to get up once or twice to empty the catch bucket though.
I've never bothered with a bag - mainly because I wouldn't know where to get one that's big enough, but also because they tend to get in the way. Besides, purple geysers in your eye or on your white shirt are part of the full body winemaking experience! :^D
No. You _have_ control over the press pressure with a bladder press; you have _no_ control with a ratchet press.
For safety reasons, use water pressure to inflate the bladder. If you use air pressure, a bladder rupture releases enormous kinetic energy which presents a serious safety risk. Having someone get hurt while you're making wine at home is a definite buzzkill. :^(
In any case, be sure not to leave picking shears, sticks or any pointy objects in the basket. I've been using a bladder press since 1987 and have not popped one yet - but I'm pretty careful.
: In any case, be sure not to leave picking shears, sticks or any pointy : objects in the basket. I've been using a bladder press since 1987 and have : not popped one yet - but I'm pretty careful. Tom S
Tom, do you do whole berry press on your Chardonnay or do you crush first? That is, can you get adequate pressure from a typical home water line to press whole berries? I've tried whole berries with a small ratchet press and it was damn near impossible without bolting the press to the floor. Looking for an alternative.
I have never done whole cluster pressing because I don't believe you get the best part of the fruit that way. I crush and cold soak the fruit with pectic enzyme and press the next day.
However, I'm sure that 3 atmospheres in a bladder press will do the trick if that's (whole cluster) your schtick. :^)
Does 'all night' make sense for reds as well? Seems that you would be using minimal pressure if you are going to press for this long - is this correct? Is 'all night' for gentleness or for maximum extraction? If you go all night, how many press batches do you do (does it take a few days)? Trying to determine size here and the impact of how many batches it would require.
Yeah - I agree, its the wine marking its spot...
And by control you mean the ability to measurably use a certain pressure (1 bar, etc) vs the 'feel' of a ratchet?
Yep, I understand the safety best practices and agree. Was also wondering though about things like you mentioned above - pressing all night, what pressure to use, etc. Different techniques for red vs white.
I wouldn't exactly call 3 bar overnight "gentle". I do this on white must to get the maximum yield of juice, and especially all the "goodies" from the fruit, which seems to lie close to the skin. The juice ends up with both higher phenolic content and pH. The former I address later with fining (if necessary) and the latter immediately before fermentation with tartaric acid.
For red wines you reach diminishing returns pretty quickly, so overnight pressing really isn't necessary. Also, the stuff at the end can be _extremely_ tannic - which you may or may not like in your wine.
I can get a ton's worth of must into my press, although it may take one or two partial press cycles to make enough room for everything to fit. IOW, fill the press, close the lid, apply pressure for awhile to drain most of the liquid from the pomace, open the press, add more must, close the lid, press again, repeat as necessary until all the must is in and then press until nothing comes out.
Actually, I've never bothered with changing the factory setting on the pressure regulator. When you first apply pressure, however, you need to be ready to shut off the water now and then or you'll have massive geysers of must shooting all over the place because the liquid can't make its way through the pomace fast enough. Easy does it until the pomace is fairly well drained. With practice you'll get the feel for it.
Leave the stems in when pressing white must. They provide vias for the juice to follow so the pressing goes more smoothly. Also, pectic enzyme helps break down the slipperiness of the must (whites) which helps prevent shooting fountains of must. This is particularly an issue with certain varietals, e.g. muscat. Some winemakers add rice hulls to the same effect. Either technique will improve your yield of white juice.
FWIW, I do whole cluster pressing on my chard every year, and we're able to do it at 2 bars or less. That's as high a pressure as the press (Vaslin-Bucher membrane press) will develop.
I think the decision on whether or not to do it has to depend on the grapes and the year. We've found that if we don't do it, we get harsher phenolics than we want, and have to fine them later.
Dave
**************************************************************************** Dave Breeden snipped-for-privacy@lightlink.com
Tom S wrote "I have never done whole cluster pressing because I don't believe you get the
Tom, am I correct that you crush the grapes, add pecitc enzyme and let the juice sit on the skins overnight until you press the next day? What's the max. time you've let Chardonnay juice sit on skins before pressing? Thanks.
I don't _mind_ fining for excess phenolics later on. I feel that their presence adds a _lot_ to the character of good Chardonnay. Actually, it's pretty nice on Pinot Grigio too - and I'll bet the same approach would work on other white varietals - e.g., Gewurtztraminer, Pinot Blanc. ??.
I'm very familiar with late fining of white wines. It's an option that permits the construction of a big wine that is quite harmonious among all its components.
But that is a style related issue. If your style is to produce _pretty_ wines with minimal intervention, then fining is something you want to avoid. You also wouldn't be using any, or not much, oak.
Those are winemaker-specific issues. You and I each know what our benchmark is, and what we are trying to accomplish - and I'll bet we each have different views on what it is and how to achieve it.
Thanks Tom - this is exactly what I was looking for.
If I have this right it seems that for reds it sounds like it makes sense to size such that at the end of your press (with repeatedly adding more must as the juice drains out) you can accomodate the quantity you like to make (for you upto 1 ton). This minimizes having to remove some of the must after pressing.
I like your thoughts on managing the control of pressure with the water valve. This makes sense.
Okay, even I, who am so phenolics averse that I turn 1/2 a days worth of Riesling pressing into 3 days worth of riesling pressing by doing them all whole cluster, don't do that to Gewurz. For Gewurz, I do something like what Tom is describing--crush and de-stem, cold soak on the skins for 12-24 hrs, and then press and ferment. I've always had it in mind that much of the varietal character in Gewurz comes from the skins, and so from skin contact.
Dave
**************************************************************************** Dave Breeden snipped-for-privacy@lightlink.com
Exactly - to get the spice and characteristic aromatics from Gewurz you really need to get some skin contact. Phenolics are part of the style anyway when making a big Alsatian style Gewurz.
Exactly - to get the spice and characteristic aromatics from Gewurz you really need to get some skin contact. Phenolics are part of the style anyway when making a big Alsatian style Gewurz.
I've often been tempted to try my hand at Gewurtztraminer, but I'd like to do it in the Alsatian style, which would probably be closer to the way you and I make Chardonnay. I'd probably use a 2 year old barrel for the fermenter though.
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