Re: wine taste mystery too ripe or jammy

> > > By the way, have you taken a residual sugar measurement? =A0What was > > your sugar level and acidity when you started? > > > Here in the NW, I often get grapes with a little rot in them, and > > they've never resulted in a jammy flavor. =A0I've always assigned that > > flavor to being over-ripe or incomplete fermentation. > > The initial Brix for the pinot noir was 21.5 and I brought it to up to > 22.5. =A0The T/A was 0.8. =A0The grapes may have been over ripe, they > tatsted good. =A0I didn't note how much SO2. =A0But my usual process is t= o > sprinkle 1/2 tsp per bushel as i crush, let sit over night and pitch > active yeast culture next morning. =A0Fermentation started fine, punched > down 1/2 daily and press when cap sinks. =A0Specific gravity was 1.00. > Finished wine was 0.990 so should be no residual sugar. > I didn't add SO2 again until 3 months later after MLF. > > I wonder if lactic bacteria could have had a role. =A0I squished some > gernaioum leaves in my hand and it was somewhat similar to the pinot > noir aroma. =A0I did not use an sorbate so this is probably not > possible, > > The color is actually very nice deep red, clear and brilliant with a > copper brown tinge around the edges. > > I have read about wine faults but I still can't identify it.
Joe, Did you top with anything store bought? I'm not sure where this smell is coming from if you didn't use any sort of sorbate. I'm not sure whether the copper color means anything if the color is not dull. I'll try Amerine's Table Wines for a clue, this is kind of odd to me.
Joe
Reply to
Joe Sallustio
> > > > > > > > By the way, have you taken a residual sugar measurement? =A0What was > > > your sugar level and acidity when you started? > > > > Here in the NW, I often get grapes with a little rot in them, and > > > they've never resulted in a jammy flavor. =A0I've always assigned tha= t > > > flavor to being over-ripe or incomplete fermentation. > > > The initial Brix for the pinot noir was 21.5 and I brought it to up to > > 22.5. =A0The T/A was 0.8. =A0The grapes may have been over ripe, they > > tatsted good. =A0I didn't note how much SO2. =A0But my usual process is= to > > sprinkle 1/2 tsp per bushel as i crush, let sit over night and pitch > > active yeast culture next morning. =A0Fermentation started fine, punche= d > > down 1/2 daily and press when cap sinks. =A0Specific gravity was 1.00. > > Finished wine was 0.990 so should be no residual sugar. > > I didn't add SO2 again until 3 months later after MLF. > > > I wonder if lactic bacteria could have had a role. =A0I squished some > > gernaioum leaves in my hand and it was somewhat similar to the pinot > > noir aroma. =A0I did not use an sorbate so this is probably not > > possible, > > > The color is actually very nice deep red, clear and brilliant with a > > copper brown tinge around the edges. > > > I have read about wine faults but I still can't identify it. > > Joe, Did you top with anything store bought? =A0I'm =A0not sure where thi= s > smell is coming from if you didn't use any sort of sorbate. =A0I'm not > sure whether the copper color means anything if the color is not dull. > I'll try Amerine's Table Wines for a clue, this is kind of odd to me. > > Joe- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Joe, Start over. Pull some to sample and top up;adjust the acid to a level you like if needed, add some oak if you think it needs it, I can't find a reason for geraniums if this is straight Baco and 21.5 is not overripe for Baco. Baco has a pH stability issue as I recall, can you measure? Just remember an uneventful trip is boring, don't quit now...
Joe
Reply to
Joe Sallustio
> > > > > > > > > By the way, have you taken a residual sugar measurement? =A0What wa= s > > > > your sugar level and acidity when you started? > > > > > Here in the NW, I often get grapes with a little rot in them, and > > > > they've never resulted in a jammy flavor. =A0I've always assigned t= hat > > > > flavor to being over-ripe or incomplete fermentation. > > > > The initial Brix for the pinot noir was 21.5 and I brought it to up t= o > > > 22.5. =A0The T/A was 0.8. =A0The grapes may have been over ripe, they > > > tatsted good. =A0I didn't note how much SO2. =A0But my usual process = is to > > > sprinkle 1/2 tsp per bushel as i crush, let sit over night and pitch > > > active yeast culture next morning. =A0Fermentation started fine, punc= hed > > > down 1/2 daily and press when cap sinks. =A0Specific gravity was 1.00= . > > > Finished wine was 0.990 so should be no residual sugar. > > > I didn't add SO2 again until 3 months later after MLF. > > > > I wonder if lactic bacteria could have had a role. =A0I squished some > > > gernaioum leaves in my hand and it was somewhat similar to the pinot > > > noir aroma. =A0I did not use an sorbate so this is probably not > > > possible, > > > > The color is actually very nice deep red, clear and brilliant with a > > > copper brown tinge around the edges. > > > > I have read about wine faults but I still can't identify it. > > > Joe, Did you top with anything store bought? =A0I'm =A0not sure where t= his > > smell is coming from if you didn't use any sort of sorbate. =A0I'm not > > sure whether the copper color means anything if the color is not dull. > > I'll try Amerine's Table Wines for a clue, this is kind of odd to me. > > > Joe- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Joe, > =A0Start over. Pull some to sample and top up;adjust the acid to a level > you like if needed, add some oak if you think it needs it, =A0I can't > find a reason for geraniums if this is straight Baco and 21.5 is not > overripe for Baco. =A0Baco has a pH stability issue as I recall, can you > measure? =A0 Just remember an uneventful trip is boring, don't quit > now... > > Joe- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Hi Joe Thanks for your advice! I always keep my containers topped off and I have never added sorbate. I think you were right orginally. The taste and smell is probably oxidation casued by lw levels of sulfites. My wife is sensitive to sulfites so I have been experimenting on minizing the sulfite use. Live and learn. I will try skim milk powder treatment on some samples and see how it works. The oxidation is not at the level that the wine tastes flat yet. I wonder if I can reverse the oxidation by hitting it with a good dose of sulfite? Joe
Reply to
Pino
>> >> >> >> >>>>> By the way, have you taken a residual sugar measurement? What was >>>>> your sugar level and acidity when you started? >>>>> Here in the NW, I often get grapes with a little rot in them, and >>>>> they've never resulted in a jammy flavor. I've always assigned that >>>>> flavor to being over-ripe or incomplete fermentation. >>>> The initial Brix for the pinot noir was 21.5 and I brought it to up to >>>> 22.5. The T/A was 0.8. The grapes may have been over ripe, they >>>> tatsted good. I didn't note how much SO2. But my usual process is to >>>> sprinkle 1/2 tsp per bushel as i crush, let sit over night and pitch >>>> active yeast culture next morning. Fermentation started fine, punched >>>> down 1/2 daily and press when cap sinks. Specific gravity was 1.00. >>>> Finished wine was 0.990 so should be no residual sugar. >>>> I didn't add SO2 again until 3 months later after MLF. >>>> I wonder if lactic bacteria could have had a role. I squished some >>>> gernaioum leaves in my hand and it was somewhat similar to the pinot >>>> noir aroma. I did not use an sorbate so this is probably not >>>> possible, >>>> The color is actually very nice deep red, clear and brilliant with a >>>> copper brown tinge around the edges. >>>> I have read about wine faults but I still can't identify it. >>> Joe, Did you top with anything store bought? I'm not sure where this >>> smell is coming from if you didn't use any sort of sorbate. I'm not >>> sure whether the copper color means anything if the color is not dull. >>> I'll try Amerine's Table Wines for a clue, this is kind of odd to me. >>> Joe- Hide quoted text - >>> - Show quoted text - >> Joe, >> Start over. Pull some to sample and top up;adjust the acid to a level >> you like if needed, add some oak if you think it needs it, I can't >> find a reason for geraniums if this is straight Baco and 21.5 is not >> overripe for Baco. Baco has a pH stability issue as I recall, can you >> measure? Just remember an uneventful trip is boring, don't quit >> now... >> >> Joe- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Hi Joe > Thanks for your advice! > I always keep my containers topped off and I have never added sorbate. > I think you were right orginally. The taste and smell is probably > oxidation casued by lw levels of sulfites. > My wife is sensitive to sulfites so I have been experimenting on > minizing the sulfite use. Live and learn. > I will try skim milk powder treatment on some samples and see how it > works. > The oxidation is not at the level that the wine tastes flat yet. > I wonder if I can reverse the oxidation by hitting it with a good dose > of sulfite? > Joe
If only there was a way to reverse wine oxidation, but alas....
Though you can 'brighten' the wine's acidity with a pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C). This can sometimes rescue a wine that has gone flat.
Gene
Reply to
gene
> >>>>> By the way, have you taken a residual sugar measurement? =A0What wa= s > >>>>> your sugar level and acidity when you started? > >>>>> Here in the NW, I often get grapes with a little rot in them, and > >>>>> they've never resulted in a jammy flavor. =A0I've always assigned t= hat > >>>>> flavor to being over-ripe or incomplete fermentation. > >>>> The initial Brix for the pinot noir was 21.5 and I brought it to up = to > >>>> 22.5. =A0The T/A was 0.8. =A0The grapes may have been over ripe, the= y > >>>> tatsted good. =A0I didn't note how much SO2. =A0But my usual process= is to > >>>> sprinkle 1/2 tsp per bushel as i crush, let sit over night and pitch > >>>> active yeast culture next morning. =A0Fermentation started fine, pun= ched > >>>> down 1/2 daily and press when cap sinks. =A0Specific gravity was 1.0= 0. > >>>> Finished wine was 0.990 so should be no residual sugar. > >>>> I didn't add SO2 again until 3 months later after MLF. > >>>> I wonder if lactic bacteria could have had a role. =A0I squished som= e > >>>> gernaioum leaves in my hand and it was somewhat similar to the pinot > >>>> noir aroma. =A0I did not use an sorbate so this is probably not > >>>> possible, > >>>> The color is actually very nice deep red, clear and brilliant with a > >>>> copper brown tinge around the edges. > >>>> I have read about wine faults but I still can't identify it. > >>> Joe, Did you top with anything store bought? =A0I'm =A0not sure where= this > >>> smell is coming from if you didn't use any sort of sorbate. =A0I'm no= t > >>> sure whether the copper color means anything if the color is not dull= . > >>> I'll try Amerine's Table Wines for a clue, this is kind of odd to me. > >>> Joe- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> Joe, > >> =A0Start over. Pull some to sample and top up;adjust the acid to a lev= el > >> you like if needed, add some oak if you think it needs it, =A0I can't > >> find a reason for geraniums if this is straight Baco and 21.5 is not > >> overripe for Baco. =A0Baco has a pH stability issue as I recall, can y= ou > >> measure? =A0 Just remember an uneventful trip is boring, don't quit > >> now... > > >> Joe- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Hi Joe > > Thanks for your advice! > > I always keep my containers topped off and I have never added sorbate. > > I think you were right orginally. The taste and smell is probably > > oxidation casued by lw levels of sulfites. > > My wife is sensitive to sulfites so I have been experimenting on > > minizing the sulfite use. =A0Live and learn. > > I will try skim milk powder treatment on some samples and see how it > > works. > > The oxidation is not at the level that the wine tastes flat yet. > > I wonder if I can reverse the oxidation by hitting it with a good dose > > of sulfite? > > Joe > > If only there was a way to reverse wine oxidation, but alas.... > > Though you can 'brighten' the wine's acidity with a pinch of ascorbic > acid (vitamin C). =A0This can sometimes rescue a wine that has gone flat. > > Gene- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
If it tastes oxidized (sherry like) I'm not sure much can be done other than make vinegar. The skim milk can help the brown color and remove a bit of the oxidized smell if present. It will also affect the color, it can strip it. I like Gene's idea about adding acid too. I use citric or tartaric depending on pH but that's because I have them here. Jammy could just be really fruity, oak can makea huge difference there.
Joe
Reply to
Joe Sallustio

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