Sparkling wine

Fred, You will find info here

on making sparkling wines. Good luck, Lum Del Mar, California, USA

Thanks for this Lum. Don't wantr to go the whole champers way with disgorgement etc. Just wondered if someone had done chaptalisation in bulk quantities. How did the bottling go? Foaming on bottling? Amount of sugar per bottle/ltr.??

Technically, that's not called chaptalization. This sounds like you want to do the bottling and then leave the sediment in and decant from it when serving? Sure that can be done, beer and cide are often done that way, no reason why wine could not be.

The process is no different than bottling for the traditional method, so you can use the same process and same amount of sugar. The only difference is you're not doing the riddling and disgorging. Of course, you have to use sparkling bottles and proper closures - crown caps probably best for this application.

Pp

Was looking for some kind of feedback on the amount of sugar per litre.? had anyone done it in bulk? any problems bottling? etc.

Have you had any experience in sparging wine with co'2 from cylinders?? Might try to spritz some of the wine, Done it in wineries with liquid co2 on tap etc just wondering if it is feasible (and cost effective) to do it with cylinders and regulators.??

Fred - I make beer as well as wine (and sparkling wine). For 5 US gallons of fermented beer I add 3/4 cup corn sugar (previously dissolved and boiled in about 1.5 cups water) to the beer and then bottle. This gives the typical carbonation for a beer. There is enough yeast left in beer that the added sugar ferments and creates the carbonation. You may have to add some yeast to a wine that is totally dry in order to ferment added sugar. And, if you don't disgorge and recap your sparkling wine will have to be poured all at once or you will kick up the settled yeast in the bottom of bottles. One other thing. When I disgorge the yeast before inserting the final cork I add a dose of sugar, brandy, etc. You might miss the flavor of this dose in a sparkling wine made by just priming.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

I have read that the main "problem" with forcing CO2 into wine is the size of the bubbles (coarser larger and not as lasting as the traditional methods). However if this is the case could it simply be the result of greater pressure forcing the carbonation? I mean there is no intelligence involved here - Oh CO2 you came from a cylinder you must form large bubbles. WOuld a lower pressurisation over a greater time yield the same results as the traditional method?

I would have to have access to quantities of wine and other facilities to test this theory out (any donations?).

Sparging the wine with co2 of course leaves no bubbles in the wine just gives the wine a "lively" mouth feel.

Can never tell the difference between the bubbles from carbonated wine or traditional champers style. Never stays in the glass long enough to do any meaningful tests ;-)

Looks like I will have to experiment with small batches as see how it works out. will have to wait a few weeks. Having a picking gang in to pick the last of my grapes then joy of joy the vintage will be "over".

Fred, I use 18 grams per 750 ml bottle and that develops around 90 PSI, do not go higher. I do 5 gallon batches; I weight out 25 * 18 g and get that into solution and add it to the batch, I then add a different yeast than what I originally fermented with, usually EC1118. As soon as I see fermentation begin I stir and bottle it and crown cap it. You get a decent amount of sediment but that is the champagne method for you.

If you want to force carbonate it go ahead, using the right bottles you can have at that. The bubbles are bigger, it's true. I don't know why but I have seen it. (Maybe it's because the only wines that are force carbonated are lower end anyway and maybe they just are not pressurized very high, I don't know.)

Joe

Thanks Joe This is the kind of detail I needed. Have seen info that suggested grams of sugar but was not sure if it would produce enough "gas". Just to get things clear are you saying that you individually make each solution (18g of sugar) and yeast. wait for each batch to start fermenting then add in to the bottles OR do 25 * 18 plus yeast as one solution and dived this up between 25 bottles.

would love to be able to get big bag of sugar dissolve in warm water. added yeast. add to 1000ltrs of wine fill approx 1300 bottles end of story.

but we all have our dreams

Life's to short to drink Bad Wine Barossa Valley

Sorry Joe answered before and left out the important detail. Should have read that Info suggested 6 grams of sugar per litre but you say

18grams. was wondering if 6 grams would produce enough "gas"

Another case of many slip between vintage and drinking wine.

First, I am saying do exactly as you propose; calculate the sugar addition, make it into a syrup and add it to the wine. Then add yeast and as soon as it begins to ferment, bottle it in appropriate bottles and crown cap it. You can add the sugar directly if you have a means to ensure it will dissolve, most don't. If you do that wait a day to add the yeast as the sugar has to convert from sucrose to ferment and the acid in the wine needs around a day to do that.

As to the calculations here is the the process (for a dry base wine).

4g sugar (table sugar, beet or cane) per litre  PSIG pressure (or one atmosphere).. Commercial wines are usually usually done at 6 atmospheres or 90 PSI so that would be 24gm/l. If you go with less you may end up with a petillant wine, which is just lightly sparkled, they can be very good too.

Joe

Thanks for that Joe. Now at least I know how much sugar I require. thats 24grams * 1000 ltrs = 24Kg To heavy for me will have to get the wife to buy it.

Fred, are you sure your container is rated to hold 90 psi? you could have an explosion on your hands if it's not. Be careful buddy, we don't want to lose you .

Gene

fred wrote:

Dont need a coontainer to hold 90 psi (apart from champers bottle) will make the brew up in one of my 1000 ltr tanks and when it starts to ferment will bottle it. At know stage would I consider pressuring my tank.( The wife might to claim on insurance).

Now 4.30 am picking gang due at 7.am to pick off the last of my grapes. Bliss!!!. Back to work before they arrive.

Fred

Hi Joe. Forgot to ask one thing. Approx time from sugar innoculation to the time we can "pop" a cork and drink the stuff

Fred

Depends on the temperature you ferment at, at room temp probably 6 weeks for fizz. The longer it's on the yeast, the better. Over a year is better than 6 months, 6 months is better than 6 weeks. Are you sure you want 1330 bottles of sparkling wine? You should read Lum's book or at least the section on sparklers, it's very good. I'm assuming you have some 'helpers' to distribute this to; that is a lot of wine.

Joe

Hi Have one person who wants the lot!!!! he is covering all my costs so its his choice. Personally I prefer making good old fashioned Shiraz.

Fred

I have never met a Shiraz I didn't like; it's the one wine I always make.

Joe