Champagne Fix: Adding CO2 after disgorgement

Initial disclaimer: I have never intentionally produced a sparkling wine. That being said, if you've got any residual yeast in there, have you considered adding une petite dossage of priming sugar to a couple of bottles (as homebrewers do.) Re-cork & wait 2 weeks and see what happens. If you're using heavyweight glass with proper corkage & basketing, then bottle bombs may be avoidable. This may be a safer, cheaper option. Then again, see the 1st line... HTH regards, bob

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I don't think that is the right way to go, if you do 90 PSIG is max,

Champagne yeast isn't for secondary, sprinkling the EC1118 was probably an issue too. I think you filtered out the nutrients when you sterile filtered, you may want to make a new starter with EC1118 at at least 1 gram per gallon and a nutrient load near max for whatever you use. If you mix up a cup and inject it into the opened bottles you could airlock one to ensure activity. It will start in a day or it won't...

The possible problem with the dry ice is twofold. The bottle probably won't crack but it's thick and thick glass hates temperature variations across the thickness. The main one is you won't get any creaminess from dead yeast with a quick carbonation.

I had a mead like yours but wines always seem to go fine for me. I use Seyval for the base and want a long time on the yeast, I like old sparklers, not the tart young ones. Joe

Solid CO2 is much too dangerous. Don't do it !!

The following is pure SWAG, so take it with a grain of salt.

I read this and the google link, and no where do you mention the acid or alcohol levels in the base wine that you used. I think maybe the alcohol was too high in the base wine to start with. Yeasts die when they hit their maximum alcohol tolerance.

To make sparklers, you gotta start with a still dry wine that is low(er) in both acid and alcohol than you would normally have in a dry table wine. Low(er) acid because the second ferment adds carbonic and you want the end product to be balanced not "sharp". Low(er) alcohol because the second ferment makes not only CO2 but also more alcohol !! If _total_ alcohol reaches the max tolerence of the second yeast before it can produce the necessary amount of carbonization, it will die too soon and leave you with duds.

If my SWAG is correct, about all you can do now is to buy a "Seltzer" bottle that uses CO2 cartridges and carbonate each bottle as you open it. HTH

Frederick

Thanks Pp-

The wine was seeded back with nutrients after sterile filtration- DAP was added, nutrient. Yeast was cultured in and then (in addition) was sprinkled on. What I'm trying to say is there was no shortage of yeasties to eat up the sugar.

The mouth feel of the wine/champagne is quite nice- it just doesn't have bubbles. The yeast is present in the bidules in the caps- I've been shaking every couple of weeks to get the sediment down the cone into the top. The cellar maintains at 52F to 57F.

I did initially keep the wine at 70F to try and get it started... but no go... and since I couldn't see any airlock activity I wasn't certain if it was working or just very slowly. Very slowly seems to be the resident theme.

I may pull a couple bottles, perhaps a case, for experimenting with. I traveled too much this year and couldn't make my wine so no attempts this year. We'll just let it age and see if it improves.

Thanks all.

In my experience if it doesn't start it never will. My cellar varies from 50 to 70 over a year. I use those higher temps to get it going, then it goes in the cellar. I think this is a yeast issue. Champagne yeast is not a good secondary fermenter and the EC1118 never got a chance as I see it. Why not do a 4 bottle experiment? Grab a 3 liter jug, hydrate EC1118 normally and add it, wait until you see activity before re-bottling. I do 6 atmospheres. I don't know what you started with as a base quantity to check the amount of sugar but from memory

Joe

Thanks Joe-

Do you actually see activity in the airlock? Does it look like a 7 day old fermentation (couple of bubbles per minute) or ?

Mine never really moved any amount of volume thru the lock as I was setting it up. It tried one day but I couldn't decide if that was just fines & sharps releasing CO2 from the liquid or actually sugar being metabolized.

I fed so much yeast into this 15 gallon demijon you'd think I was making bread ;) I'll give it a shot on the 4 bottles.

Jason

What was the OG of the base wine ??

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: .

Jason,

I just found this thread, but I notice that you mentioned airlocks twice (above). Were you using an airlock on the secondary fermenters, or just on a monitor bottle? If the main fermenters were under airlock, I don't think much carbonation would stay dissolved, as the pressure would escape. Please forgive me if I misinterpreted your procedure.

Jason, Yes, I see literal bubbles but the carboy is full, I make sure the wine in at least 70F and I see bubbles within a day. I stir the carboy as I bottle; I bottle as soon as I see real activity for at least an hour.

Mike, I use a similar process to Jason, I do carboy sized batches. I don't sulfite the last rack before adding sugar and hydrated yeast to the batch in the carboy. l have heard of people adding sugar and injecting yeast into bottles but that just seems like too much effort for no gain.

You can tell if the wine is fermenting by looking at the bottles, if they are clear, you have an issue, they should be cloudy for weeks. I usually shake them for the first couple months then mark the bottom with white out and stack them for several years but I like 'creamy' sparklers.

Joe

Joe,

From what you said, I gather that you just start the second, carbonating fermentation in the carboy , and bottle up the refermenting wine to carbonate in the bottle. Disgorging at some point? It certainly makes sense, but I just wanted to double check with Purduephotog, on the slight chance that he had made an error in procedure. Just trying to unravel his mystery. It does sound like the alcohol level/osmotic pressure? might have caused a stuck fermentation in this case.

Thanks.

Hi Mike, Sorry for the delay, I have that stupid virus. Yes, I get it going in bulk then stir as I bottle and crown cap. Once I know they are going in bottle I stack them and let them be for a few years. The French rotate the bottles every 6 months to ensure you don't get a stubborn yeast stain on the bottle but I haven't seen that yet so don't do it.

I bought used pupitres off of Presque Isle so riddling and disgorging are as normal.

We never talked about initial alcohol level in this thread that I recall but my thoughts have always been on yeast in this thread. This is a difficult situation in general so you need to try to stack the deck in the yeasts favor. Pasteur Champagne is not a good secondary fermenter but the EC1118 is so hydrating it and seeing where it goes seems like the right thing to do to me.

Joe