Thinning of vertical shoots

Here is an excellent article on the subject. Most of this research supports doublesb's previous comments but also note the authors comments about situations of extreme vigor.

Paul

I seriously doubt than adding compost will add 2 brix. I would like to see doubi, or whatever his name actually is, point us to a literature cite.

This flies in the face of research that indicates that when you already have vigorous growth, you do not further your problem. I think most research would indicate that increased vegetative growth has a negative effect on grape berry maturity.

In my opinion and experience, adding brix is done by increasing growing degree days, hours of sunlight or cropping your vines so that you do not over crop.

The very best thing for Michael to do is an experiment where he mulches a row or rows and leaves the others unmulched and see if he gets the "2 brix" increase on the mulched rows that you claim. The thing(s) that increase brix are more sunlight and more growing degree days. Perhaps the only thing Michael can do is cut down trees or other obstacles obstructing sunlight.

You should send your mulching "proof" to viticulturists and tell them of your 2 brix increase revelation. I am sure you could start a new trend in grape growing.

You never did answer my question that I asked in the past; where are you growing your grapes and what are you growing?

Paul at least uses his real name.

I am saying that I have no doubt that mulching will increase vigor. Increased vigor in an already vigorous situation will NOT improve grape quality. In fact, it will do just the opposite. Do you like your wine to smell and taste like vegetables? Here in the Mid Atlantic, commercial growers constantly strive to DECREASE vigor.

The French say that the best wine is made from the struggling vine. Hmmm, something to think about there, doublesb.

You will also find many references in the literature that state grapes do no like wet feet. Grape vine roots can go VERY deep; deeper than almost all other plants. You can not compare the root system of other shallow rooted plants to grape vines. Promoting a shallow root system is not a good thing to do for grape vines. Also consider where Vitis Vinifera originated - NOT in parts of the world that had vigorous growth. Also, it is most successfully grown - in semi arid areas.

I see, you STILL refuse to state your name and where you live and grow grapes and which varieties you grow.

Ever see an oasis in the desert? Plants there do very well with just a little water.

The premier growing areas are those that are semi arid and water is regulated by drip irrigation or nature provides just enough water - sort of like fine tuning an IV for a Human in the hospital. Drip irrigation is usually cut off or reduced to promote better ripening near harvest time. In your theory, you would give them all the water they wanted. The result would be extremely long canes with poor fruit.

Genetically grapes could care less about optimum ripening as long as there is ample sun and water. Grapes are genetically coded to be climbers and reach for the sun. When water is reduced, the grape vine will stop sending energy to the shoot growth and instead put its energy into maturing the seeds and fruit to make it more likely birds and other animals will eat them, spread their seeds and perpetuate the species. This is the only thing nature cares about - perpetuating the species.

Tell it to the French.

Excessive vigor promotes poor quality wine. I suppose you disagree with this also.

Publish. and have your work peer reviewed. Most research viticulturists would welcome your documented research.

Paul

NO!! most do not fertilize.

They don't.

The proof is well established. I think you live in California, right? What is the climate in most of the vineyards there? What is the climate in Washington State where grapes are grown. What is the climate in Argentina and Chile where grapes are grown. Vitis Vinifera originated in Eurasia near the Caspian and Black Sea - hardly a tropical paradise.

Yep, if you water them, you will have a good amount of them near the surface.

Michael can easily do an experiment and grow his vineyard differently in different rows and compare.

I am talking about a trial between rows in the same year!!! Not one year compared to another. Also, the crop is not yet in for this year. A vigorous vine does not mean the fruit is good.

Try drinking wine instead of growing and smoking wacky weed your reasoning may be better. :-)

Yes, but a LOT less than other fruits. Ever been to Grand Junction, Colorado, Moab Utah? Quite a desert environment there and they grow good fruit - WITHOUT MULCHING.

As I thought, you are afraid to publish in any magazine read by and contributed to by viticulturists.

STILL no answer as to where you live and what you are growing. Afraid of this question? I am also not impressed that you hide behind an alias.

Paul