when to start a ML culture

i wouldn't go through the hassle. I am no expert, but I would add the culture just a day before the wine is dry in the primary. Then press it with the culture. I have heard where some winemakers will actually put the culture in real early during fermentation. I think this also depends on what yeast you are using. Instead, if you want to divide the culture up over several carboys, I would mix the culture in a separate container with some amount of wine that is easily divisible by the number of carboys you have. Let the culture sit in there for some short period, then divide it equally among the secondaries. Again - being no expert - adding culture is not like adding acid, in terms of percision, so i wouldn't sweat it. The culture is alive and therefore not easily quantified. Remember that most reds (unless over sulfited) will go through MLF on their own, so adding the cultre is a security measure in my opinion. My last thought on this is that if for some reason you have a little more or less ml culture in some secondaries, they may just take a little longer to go through MLF.

I like the idea of putting it in before pressing too, but I am from Pittsburgh and am not sure I understand why you even want to use ML on anything from the strip. (This poster is from around Pittsburgh too.)

The grapes from the strip come from California, but from a hot area. By definition they are low acid wines. What you could end up with is a flabby Syrah. If you are buying off of Jay or Ron ask them if they advise using ML and how they would add it. I make a lot of Syrah from the strip and never added ML to any of it. I'm in the book if you have questions and need an answer fast. The only time I use ML is when I make reds form Erie or NY, I don't always use it there either.

Alexis at Country Wines is a good winemaker by the way, if you were comfortable talking to her just tell her what your final plan is and see what she thinks.

We have a saying; "The wine will turn out fine in spite of what you do to it" so don't worry. Joe

Thanx Joe.I got my grapes from consumers last year ( Ron). I have a bear of a time getting anything close to accurate as far as acid testing , and have only been doing this for 4 or 5 years. I gotta admit it turns into a compulsion after awhile. I'll let you know what shakes out. Ted.

Ted, I'm in the South Hills, I can help you with the acids. Just email me.

Joe.

I would add the ML culture at (or very near) the end of fermentation but before pressing. I've done this twice with Cabernet Sauvignon with goods results. Giving the ML bugs a day or so skin contact time is probably beneficial. Though pressing will aerate the wine a bit (and too much aeration could promote off flavors from the ML culture), my experience has been that it is not a problem. The wine at this point is still nearly saturated with CO2 offering some protection. I don't think I would try to divide it up into your carboys because getting the culture to solubilize evenly may proove difficult.

I ML all reds not so much for stylistic reasons as for microbial stability. A poster above mentioned this also. With low acid grapes I would supplement with tartaric acid prior to fermentation and put it through ML. I sleep better at night knowing I've encouraged a known ML culture to metabolize the malic acid and other nutrients in the must rather than allowing unknown organisms to do the job.

Also as mentioned by others, success or failure of co-inoculation is yeast-dependent (perhaps ML strain dependent, too). For example, Premier Cuvee can produce sufficient amounts of SO2 to thwart or retard ML. Choose a yeast strain that's ML compatible.

RD

Joe, like you, I do not always add ML but I have been doing some thinking lately on this subject.

The low acid grapes from CA are probably going to go through a natural ML even if you don't add it (It is on the skins along with yeast etc).

the "Natural" ML on the skins may not produce a desired end product as there are more than one strain of ML and I have read that some of the "natural" ones may not be beneficial or give off flavors.

Of course, if you bump up the acid prior to fermentation and also sulphite prior to fermentation - which I usually do - you may be killing off the "Natural ML"

In some (or maybe most cases) it may be best to kill off the "natural ML" and add a cultured ML

Any thoughts?

Paul