making glucose syrup from starch - Page 2

Have a question or want to show off your project? Post it! No Registration Necessary.  Now with pictures!

Threaded View
Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Lacustral wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
Sorry, you were right. I found the article and re-read it.  Have a look
at the following link which explain the process, the enzymes used and at
what temperatures they are used.
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/biology/enztech/starch.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it
In brewing this compromise is used to get a specific result in terms of
the ratio
fermentable and unfermentable sugars.  You want all glucose, so the
compromise is not what you want.

Also the optimal temperature of the enzyme depends on where the enzymes
comes from, which grain or organism.  Some of the bacterial
alpha-amylase will tolerate 100C.

To find the chemicals and enzymes, you will need to find enzyme
suppliers and chemical suppliers in your country.  Also you will
want quantities very much smaller than they are used to supply.

Robert


Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Robert Hinterding (rhh@sillyyak.com.au) wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Is it easy to convert sucrose/fructose into glucose?  

Laura

Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Lacustral wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

A sucrose is a disaccharide molecule consisting of a fructose and a
glucose bonded together.

Scott


Re: making glucose syrup from starch



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Cooks split the sucrose molecule all the time to make "invert sugar."
Basically heat sugar water with some acid (lemon juice).  That breaks
the bond.  Don't know if it's possible to then easily get the fructose
to glucose.

Also, glucose is the same as dextrose (which is what corn sugar is).



Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Lemon juice is not stron enough. Invert sugar is done with enzymes or
sulfuric acid. Not in US where corn syrup is subsidized so it is
cheaper than than sucrose.

Anyway, this discussion is getting realy boring, lots of dopes here.
Lets discuss making hexanitromannitol from starch instead.


Re: making glucose syrup from starch



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Don't know what cook would have enzymes or sulfuric acid in the kitchen,
but from:
 http://web.foodnetwork.com/food/web/encyclopedia/termdetail/0,7770,3235,00.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it



Re: making glucose syrup from starch


sucrose is not dextrose
beet sugar
cane sugar
corn sugar
fruits sugars
all have their own specifics

looking for alternatives
go to a diabetics site.
they have made a science of it.

and they did a better display of the promises, values, and problems of it
all.
beer is not exactly the site to learn about what takes a diabetic a lifetime
to learn.

yes somewhere in history they had discovered how to convert lead into gold.

either i am a space cadet or you are.
i hope it is me.

Quoted text here. Click to load it



Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Lacustral wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
to
sells
in.

Alpha amylase is the one of the two "critical" enzymes for brewing.
Naturally present in grain, this enzyme at certain temperatures cuts
down the large protein and startch molecules present. These simpler
forms can be digested by the yeast easier. (The other enzyme is beta
amylase.)

In brewing, you typically do a "mash" that hits both enzyme's naturally
active temperature at least part of the time. A typical all-grain
homebrewer might heat the mash (usually via infusions of hot water) to
around 154F -- a temperature in which both enzymes are moderately
active -- and let it soak for an hour. More thorough yields are
obtained by resting at both the beta and the alpha amyl

The only time I've heard alpha amylase being used in homebrewing is
when you overshoot your mash temperature, deactivating the alpha
amylase enzyme. You really need both alpha and beta enzymes working
together, either through the compromise temperature above or via
multi-stage temperature rests.

Just FYI: I Googled and found this book:
http://www.fao.org/icatalog/search/dett.asp?aries_id=7490 -- from the
Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations which details
how to make maltose syrup from cassava starch using cottage methods and
cereal grain enzymes (which the two above are). Hey, it might be more
what you are looking for. It's not glucose syrup. (Though maltase is a
possible enzyme for converting maltase to glucose -- but again, I don't
know what the active ranges are for that.) Either way, such procedures
in this book may be a better way of producing an allergy-free sugar
syrup (which is your purpose, right?) from cassava starch at home.

Further comments: Maybe some of the more scientific folks can comment
on amyloglucosidase aka Beano. This enzyme has been used to make "light
beer", it's very good supposedly at breaking down complex carbs, and
has a better active temperature range (40C or below).


Re: making glucose syrup from starch


electrodevo@gmail.com wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I'm gluten intolerant, so I can't use the cereal grain enzymes.  A lot
of saccharification enzymes are from bacteria and fungus which would
probably be OK.  

Quoted text here. Click to load it

yup - from cassava (tapioca) or arrowroot starch.  I have a pretty intense
corn allergy by the way - 1/16 of a grain of corn made me severely ill for
several days, and 2 tbsp. of fructose - which has about the same amount of
corn protein - also made me quite sick.  Fructose is made from corn syrup,
so I'm quite sure that corn syrup is not OK.  

Quoted text here. Click to load it

That's interesting!  I was wondering about Beano :)  Easy to get it :)  
I have the impression that amylglucosidase is used together with other
amylases, it's the final step after other amylases have been at the
starch.  

Laura

Re: WARNING: Re: making glucose syrup from starch


yes, but as far as boring goes, it reminds me of the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
as far as dull goes almost anything can create beer, if it is processed
properly.
even the opium poppy contains sugar which will ferment.
i doubt is so lethally inclined to poison their friends.
cassava is not available in canada
some places on this planet, this is their only chance for food.

your experiments will likely lead to death.
feeding that to a canuck in canada will give you lifetime imprisonment, with
no chance of parole.
OOPS is not good enough.

go to kill me if ya want newsgroups

death is a handy subject til ya have to lift up a cold lifeless best buddy.
because someday you will have to do it.
and you just won't joke about it ever again.

tell the prison warden ya want the view of the golf course.


Quoted text here. Click to load it



Re: making glucose syrup from starch


The problem here seems to food intollerances - corn and fructose.
You say you can't eat grains - does that mean all grains or just some of
them?

Mashing a starch with enzymes (need both alpha and beta amylases), is
not a very good solution as there are some problems.

First - a mixture of sugars will be produced, including fructose and
fructans.

Second - And you need to consider the gelatinisation temperature of the
starch and this varies with its source.  Rice has a high gelatinisation
temperature, tapioca and potato have low gelatinisation temperatures.
The starch needs to be gelatinised before the enzymes can easily convert
the starches to sugars.


Glucose syrup is mainly produced by acid hydrolysis of corn or wheat
starch, but can use any starch.  You can find information about the
process on the web.

Some sugars in Europe are produced from sugar beet, so it may be
possible to locate a glucose syrup made from this.

Making glucose syrup yourself is not going to be easy.


Lacustral wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it


Re: making glucose syrup from starch


muha (muhammar@hotmail.com) wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

How does this exactly work, like how hot, what concentration sulfuric
acid, etc.?  And can one get sulfuric acid, CaCO3 (calcium carbonate?)
that one would be OK with eating the end product?  (no carcinogenic
contaminants etc.?  

Laura


Re: making glucose syrup from starch


I cannot recommend doing this for a human consumption as a sweetener on
your own. It is not worth the effort and risks. And you would need
food-grade chemicals.

Also, you can buy glucose cheaply.

Please note that glucose is very weak sweetener - several times less
sweet than sucrose. What is wrong with using sugar, anyway? It tastes
better, too. Or you can buy fructose or use honey.


Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Quoted text here. Click to load it

   I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
in malted barley (and wheat).  No added enzymes are
typically used.
--
Joel Plutchak                 "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
plutchak@VERYWARMmail.com      - "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

Re: making glucose syrup from starch



: >I'd like to make my own glucose syrup, using enzymes - can somebody help
: >me with the process?  Apparently you use alpha and beta amylases - they
: >use them in beer brewing sometimes, but I might look for amylases
: >from bacteria & fungi, rather than the pancreatic enzymes that are (I
: >think) used in beer brewing.
:
:    I can't help with your problem, but in brewing beer
: we use the naturally-occuring enzymes that are present
: in malted barley (and wheat).  No added enzymes are
: typically used.
: --
but don't you heat in acidic conditions to make your wort?
cheers
Wazza




Re: making glucose syrup from starch


Quoted text here. Click to load it

   We heat, and many of us don't do explicit acidification--
we simply heat the grains in water and let the chips fall
where they may wrt pH.
--
Joel Plutchak                 "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
plutchak@VERYWARMmail.com      - "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

Re: making glucose syrup from starch


On Wed, 18 May 2005, Lacustral wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

First, get a second opinion on your allergies.  One of my friends was
diagnosed with something similar by her chiropractor but a MD found that
her condition was far different.

Next, try finding a home winemaking supplierthat sells amylase enzyme.
I'm doing a similar experiment right now with tapioca as a source of
starch.  I use my oven to keep the temp in the 148-158F range.  I jst
started the test today so I can't tell you the results yet, but I'll post
later this week with what I find.
Warren Place

Re: making glucose syrup from starch


On Wed, 18 May 2005, Warren Place wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

An update on my experiment: my amylase is really old and not functional.
After sitting at 152F for an hour and about 70F for 10 hours, a starch
test showed plenty of starch.  I added a handful of pale malt to the 8 oz
water and tsp. of tapioca and held it at 152F for 30 min.  It was fully
converted at 30 min and the tapioca pellets disappeared.  Unfortunately,
the mini-wort seemed to have a very viscous texture with a lot of
particulate.  MAybe a longer boil would clear this up?
Warren Place

Tapioca beer (was Re: making glucose syrup from starch)


On Thu, 19 May 2005, Warren Place wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Tried a little larger experiment.  1/2lb grain (but I forgot to crush
it...DOH!) 1.5 oz tapioca and a quart of water.  Held it at 152-155F for
an hour and got complete conversion by iodine test.  I boiled it for an
hour, cooled the wort and pitched yeast.  The wort sample that I left in
my hydrometer jar is clearing at the top and I expect this will make a
perfectly clear ale, though I'm chilling the sample now to see what effect
that has on clarity. The gravity was only 1.023 which suggests I got very
little out of the grain (understandable since I forgot to crush it).  I
think this quart-size beer experiment has convinced me that I need to make
a tapioca saison this weekend.

Warren Place

Re: making glucose syrup from starch




Lacustral wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Wouldn't it be easier just to buy the liquid glucose? Or else buy powder
glucose and make your own liquid?

Site Timeline