Mold on cider

Yes, you could have saved it. Mold usually takes several days to take hold, if you would have used one packet of wine yeast the juice would begin fermenting sooner and would have made the environment less hospitable to mold.

Joe

Kathy,

Bacterial spoilage can be corrected by adding sugar and re-fermenting. I got this advice from a reputable winemaker. If wine has bacterial spoilage either add it to next years batch or add sugar and referment. Obviously the re-fermented batch will be stronger but it will be drinkable. Use Champagne yeast if alcohol is already present. The first time I used this advice was a couple days ago and it worked great.

Bob

I do not think this is good advice. I suggest Kathy not to take it.

A packet of wine yeast is NOT expensive.

Why is it not good advice? I'm not saying she shouldn't add yeast to ferment. I'm saying that spoiled wine can be fixed. What is the worst that can happen, pouring it down the drain anyway?

Bob

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If you catch it fairly quickly and it's only on top, you can rack the must out from under the mold (leaving behind a couple of inches to make sure you don't carry the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch yeast. If it's been growing for a while toss it, as the mold produces toxins that will have spread throughout the must and cannot be easily removed.

It is also possible to have the spoilage organism(s) spread to other places in the location in which the wine is being made.

These are merely my opinions and of course everyone has their own and do what they think is best or works for them.

The two Paul's in this thread would make good Republican Presidential candidates. Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into anyone who ever came across mold or a bad smelling wine. On the contrary, there are no known pathogens that exist in wine. It's the reason the Board of Health exempts wineries from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone on this board heard of anyone getting sick from bad wine? Anyone? Frederick mentioned the push down of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those "toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times and didn't even know it. Those toxins are always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2 puts them in suspended animation until the SO2 levels drop. Bleach would kill them but then there really would be "toxins" in the wine. How many "toxins" have people drunk in this world when the SO2 levels of the wine they are drinking become low?? Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are not there and it's ironic that the cap keeps getting pushed into the fermenting must to kill them. Maybe the fermentation does do something. Imagine that.

Bob

On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur wrote:

I forgot to mention the crush. Grapes are never washed before the crush. Do you realize how much bird shit is on those grapes? How much echoli bacteria is in the musts before the fermentaion? How do the two Pauls deal with that? Oh, that's right, they pitch the yeast.

Bob

Surface mold grows on the surface film for a reason. That is where it finds the "living conditions" it requires. Relatively stable, relatively dry, and abundant oxygen. Had you stirred the juice/must

2 or 3 times a day, you would have disrupted these "living conditions" long enough for the yeast to get started. Even when the yeast gets going, you need to keep stiring once or twice a day so long as there remains any solids or foam on the surface that might dry out enough to let the mold get reestablished.

When you see advice about things like stiring, pump over, punch down, etc., take heed. There are always reasons for the things we do. HTH

Frederick

I would have to change my party affiliation before I did that ;)

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my guest. If you want to risk contaminating other things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the wine police I am merely making suggestions.

I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to make "wine". The words were:

.."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or other additives)."

Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no. Of course, to the best of my knowledge, I have never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had green mold growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine - errr - beverage making ;)

Cents everyone has 2 pennies of advice, here is mine. :*) (yes, I know I spelled it wrong)

Adding yeast would have helped. Possibly adding sugar, but it depends on the S.G. With yeast so inexpensive, I would never let fruit or grapes ferment on their own, though I realize that's the way they did it 2000 years ago, they also didn't have $.99 yeast packets available.

Some of the best grapes and fruit for making wine is over ripe, meaning all kinds of mold and stuff is happening to them.

I also agree with several comments above about catching it quickly (not

4 months later) and racking out the top mold.

IMHO.

My apple cider wine was made two years ago and will be in the bottle another year before it's close to ready. But it is promising!

I do appreciate learn> After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we

I'm making suggestions myself based on my observations and experiences combined with info given to me by a good winemaker. I'm not suggesting drinking bad stuff, I'm suggesting a method to fix it.

"Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no. Of

I haven't even heard of anyone getting sick. Like I said, I'm suggesting ways to fix it not ways to drink it.

"> > The two Paul's in this thread would make good

I think Cathy has enough information to make her decision.

You can never have enough info. If she makes a decision based on the limited info presented here, I will guarantee it will be an ill- informed decision.

Bob

Sadly there seems to be a degree of derision on this thread as well as the useful opinions and information. The information is useful, the derision is not.

I am not sure myself as to whether all byproducts of bacterial spoilage are neutralised when the alcohol levels rise high enough to kill the infection. I couldn't find much online about it and I don't know whether many of these byproducts are poisonous either. Information and opinion given by long-term winemakers on this thread is interesting though and does help to form a strategy as well as opinion.

I'd be interesting to hear more on this subject. Perhaps the lack of testimony from people quoting a negative experience shows that there is rarely a problem with procedures suggested. Perhaps it just shows that they haven't read this thread yet.

Jim (a newb)

I'm not worried about the derision. What worries me is advice given without any examples to back it up. Statements like " I wouldn't do that" without a reason why just doesn't cut it. Reasons like "That doesn't sound too appetizing" is not very scientific.

Bob

Bob,

The reason I especially like this newsgroup is because there is no (or very little) flaming. If you want to see what some other newsgroups have become, just visit some of the political or computer newsgroups.

If you want some (non scientific) backing from me it would be (IMHO), that mold WILL produce SOME byproducts that may not be desireable in the final product. Examples would be Brett and VA infections not to mention some possible more serious ones depending on part of the percnet alcohol, pH etc.

There are a LOT of different kinds of mold and I am not an expert and I doubt that is your case. I will leave this topic to the experts.

From what I have read, green mold is characteristic of Penicillian. Maybe that is what is being grown by the OP, maybe not. Maybe it would produce no harm, maybe not.

I am not a biologist and I do not know what percentage of alcohol would protect a must from byproducts that would affect the product (wine or cider) in an adverse manner taste or possible heath issues. The advice I gave errors on the side of caution.

It may very well be the case that the advice you gave is acceptable (in this particular case) but can you be sure that it will cause no harm in all cases? I think this is the question that should be asked.

The OP is NOT talking about a LARGE quantity of cider (wine), at least not by my definition. If in doubt AND if the OP were making a LARGE quantity of wine or cider, then I think the very best advice I could give would be to send a sample to a lab. Most labs are reasonable - especially if we are talking about large volumes of product. If we are NOT talking about large volumes then I think my advice still stands.

I am quite sure you will disagree based on YOUR experience but like the old saying goes "Your mileage may vary.

I hope we can all benefit from a dialog and get along. That is my primary concern.

Paul

Hello. I am laughing at your style. And you have reassured me some what, re my own apple juice. I made a press, used only untreated apples, cut and pr essed the juice. I have currently 11 litres in clear plastic bottles. The j uice was brown and so refreshing. I covered the lids with a piece of muslin , to prevent fruit fly. It's been eight days now and I have foam on top and sediment on the bottom. One of the bottles has green/blue mould on it. Now I have eaten mould on fruits before, with no ill effect. I will be getting glass demijohns tomorrow. Should I avoid the foam and mould in the racking process and the sediment a the bottom of bottles. Or should I stirr it up first. Or skim of blue/green mould. There is nothing but apple juice in bot tles, ie no additives or chemicals. I am trying to make organic cider. Any advice on the next step would be welcomed. Thank you.