Mold/bacteria

1) Remove as much of the surface film as possible with a spoon or turkey baster. 2) Rack the wine --- straining it through a coffee filter or muslin cloth --- into clean and STERILIZED carboys. 3) Add 100 ppm (~2 campden tablets, or 2 tsp. 10% metabisulfite solution, per gallon) to the carboy, preferably just before racking. 4) Make certain the carboys are properly topped up and properly sealed with airtight bungs or airlocks (which should be sanitized prior to use).

Hiya, JoAnn

Unless you can identify the problem as a film yeast or something non-susceptible you might try adding up to 400ppm of Lysozyme too- On the chance that whatever is infecting your wine is susceptible. Of course if you want to know for sure you'd need a microscope to identify the little bugs and a trial to see if it works, and if ML hasn't finished and you want it to you can't add lysozyme, but it may help otherwise.

Regards,

John

Hi, Thanks for tha advice but I do not have access to lysonme. I will rack and sulfite the stuff. JAM

They do stock it at

although their version is called lactizyme or something like that. It's relatively expensive, but I keep some on hand to prevent ML in whites and in case of stuck fermentations (though I've never had one). Still, you'll probably be OK with 100 ppm of sulfite and a careful racking.

Good luck,

John

I don't know if I'm getting the same stuff as Joann but I have a problem with recurring film yeasts with my reds, too.

I have sucked off the top (probably a poor turn of phrase but you know what I mean), sanitized, racked, sulfited, lysozymed, topped up, etc etc and the problem has a way of coming back.

Whatever it is, there is a strong sherry nose at the surface, although samples taken from below are fine. I suspect it is an agent that is not affected by lysozyme, a flor yeast of some type.

It is extremely annoying, to say the least.

Brian

Yep, lysozyme has no effect on yeasts, so it doesn't work against film yeasts or brett. Likewise it has no effect on acetobacter. It's good against lactobacillus and some other nasty critters but it's no magic bullet. Nevertheless, I've started adding it to all my wines at about

200ppm after completion of ML, since it can help prevent some kinds of instability and to me has no impact at all on flavor.

Regards,

John

Have you tried anti-flor tablets? They are designed to inhibt flor yeast formations.

Charles, where do you find the anti flor tablets. There used to be a product from Italy called Flor stop(I think). I can't find it any more! Would like to be able to control this film that several ( including me ) encounter in red wines.

I'm sure you could order it from piwine.com or if you're in Canada, I think both watson's and funk winemaking carry them as well. Try google.com as well, I'm sure there are more dealers. HTH

If you maintain correct SO2 levels for your wine's pH and keep the containers topped up and airtight this shouldn't be an issue. BTW, airlocks aren't as good as a solid bung.

Tom S

These films are difficult to stop if you have air present, even when the wine underneath is SO2'd correctly. The organisms live on the interface, and rely on the first few millimetres being de-sulphured due to air contact to provide a liveable environment.

Best bet is to check your pH and SO2 anyway and adjust. You could try filtration using some commonly available filters to remove the microorganism load and return to sterile containers. try and do everything under inert gas like CO2 or N2 in the containers to lower the O2 content. Make sure the containers are full and maintain an airtight seal.

That sherry smell some> >

I've had this with some of my reds. Never a problem with any of my whites, knock on wood, and has only happened with moderately low alcohol wines, 10% or so. Fortifying with some alcohol may also help inhibit this yeast, or freeze concentrate it into some port wine -- sure to kill whatever it is. :)

I spent a lot of time and effort fighting with this problem, worrying about it, racking it every few weeks to try and rid the next layer of film off the top. No luck. My worst batch (and my first occourance of this) I sulphited to 175 ppm. Y'know what? The sulphite wouldn't touch it. In my case it was some kind of film yeast that was resistant to high sulphite levels. None of my airlocks have been compromised and were within a 1/2" from the surface with a tight seal, yet it would still grow, and the film would return yet again.

In the worst case batch, where I had 175 ppm, it just wouldn't stop. In a week after racking, it would form a film on the surface on the neck of the carboy, about 1/2" thick! This stuff was seriously infected. Oddly enough, I tasted it, and it tasted fine. Maybe this is some kind of sherry yeast, but the red really mellowed out and I thought it benefitted the wine, for what it was worth. I ended up buying a Buon Vino wine filter. I used a #2 filter once, waited a few weeks, noticed it was just starting to come back, and then filtered it once more with another #2. Then I added some food grade hydrogen peroxide to bring the sulphite down, and I bottled it. Oddly enough, considering all the torture this went through, it ended up tasting pretty good, and it didn't get filmy in the bottle.

I think the moral of the story is, whatever this stuff is, it doesn't seem to be catastrophic. Also, IMO, no drinkable amounts of sulphite or air tightness can help get this under control.. for whatever reason, it's not where the problem lies. Racking it excessively could increase exposure to air and make it worse. Adding 1/2" of mineral oil on the top of the wine did seem to inhibit this problem a bit in the worst case batch, but it might be overkill, and was a bit troublesome to rack off the oil afterwards. Even with mineral oil on top, and then a good airlock on top of that, with 1/8" airspace, it would still form 1/8" thick film underneath the mineral oil after a week! There is only so much patience you have to use a turkey baster!

IMO, the best solution seems to be run it through an ordinary #2 wine filter as soon as you see it, hope it doesn't build up too much while bulk aging, and then filter again before bottling. You could consider fortifying as well. But don't sweat this problem. Cross your fingers and hopefully it won't form in the bottle. I don't know how to effectively deal with it without filtering and/or fortifying. As I said, I've tried everything from

175 PPM to using mineral oil, and it sure didn't help.. Once it has got a solid footholding, it is very hard to stop, but even then, it's apparently not catastrophic. The sooner you filter, the better, but you may not need to go to a sterile filter to get this under control, even in the worst case scenario like I had above.

LG

"Brian Lundeen" wrote:

I suspect that you added 175 ppm of dead sulfite to your wine.

Potassium metabisulfite, potassium sulfite, sodium sulfite - they're all reactive to air. If you've had this stuff for any length of time, particularly in a loosely sealed container (plastic bag, plastic tub etc.) it's probably all gone over to the sulfate, which is totally inert. If you're using a stock solution that's been sitting around awhile, the same applies.

I've never seen a wine that had been properly sulfited and kept topped up that could grow _anything_ on its surface.

Just to be sure, do a Ripper test on the wine (look it up). I'd bet your free SO2 is zero, or close to it.

Tom S

I used Titretes (sp?) to check it, and it was off the scale. It was so strong with sulphite (in taste & smell) it was totally undrinkable. It was only until I added hydrogen peroxide that I could even think about drinking it. The sulphite I added was about 2 months old, from a sealed packet purchased not long before -- but I could entertain the idea that it could have been poor or old from the factory/supplier. If the sulphite converted to sulfate, would it still have a horrible smell and taste awful, and would the peroxide help fix it, even though it was inert? I was also suspicious that the formations on the top of the wine could be some kind of deposit of some sort, that wasn't anything that was growing at all, but I'm not sure what that would be, and doubtful because it seemed to be growing as opposed to throwing some kind of deposit.

LG

Well it sounds like your sulfite is up to snuff anyway. I can't imagine anything being able to grow in something that has so much sulfite you can't drink it. Sorry that's not much help...

Tom S

I am not well informed about wine making; can molds produce acetone from alcohols. A newly fermented bottle has mold specks floating on the surface and smells of strongly of acetone.