Keg fridge dispensing troubles

I'm not exactly sure on this, as I only have cornies, but you could try to turn the CO2 down a bit. I force pressurize at about that psi and then drop to ~5psi to dispense. It could be that you are "over carbonating". Cheers,

I run into a similar problem, though to a much lesser extent, dispensing from corny kegs. The problem appears to lie in the volume of CO2 in the head space. That volume increases with each beer you pour. Theoretically this shouldn't create a problem due to the law of partial pressures, etc., but the beer does seem to pick up carbonation towards the end.

I pretty much fixed this problem by lowering the pressure to about 10 psi and adding about 2 feet to the dispensing lines to better balance the system. If you currently have 1/4" i.d. lines, you need to switch to 3/16" i.d. lines to make the problem go away. If you already have the smaller lines, then you need to go longer.

Wayne Bugeater Brewing Company

Make sure your faucet isn't pulling in air somewhere. Check the valve assembly.

Tom

Great suggestions, thank you! The line is 3/16", yes. I am going to re-check for air leaks as suggested, and if that doesn't appear to be the issue, I'm going to lengthen the beverage line. After reading some other good archived information after posting, I started realizing that "balancing" may very well be my issue.

thanks for help> > I've been Google'ing for answers, but haven't found anything that seems

In rec.crafts.brewing snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote: : Great suggestions, thank you! The line is 3/16", yes. I am going to : re-check for air leaks as suggested, and if that doesn't appear to be : the issue, I'm going to lengthen the beverage line. After reading some : other good archived information after posting, I started realizing that : "balancing" may very well be my issue.

From what you described, you are almost certainly over-carbonating the beer. That's why it worked fine initially, but after awhile it's all foam. It takes *time* for an un-agitated keg to absorb CO2 from the headspace.... on the order of days to a week or more.

You should measure the temperature of the keg, and then do a google for "volumes co2 carbonation" and find a table for what's an appropriate pressure at that temperature for the style of beer you've got in the keg. Probably on the order of 2.5-3 volumes. If your temp is 35 degrees, 14 psi sounds like a bit much.

-Cory

: I run into a similar problem, though to a much lesser extent, dispensing : from corny kegs. The problem appears to lie in the volume of CO2 in the : head space. That volume increases with each beer you pour. : Theoretically this shouldn't create a problem due to the law of partial : pressures, etc., but the beer does seem to pick up carbonation towards : the end.

The volume of CO2 in the headspace is irrelvant. There are a number of reasons why it might *seem* to make a difference, but it doesn't. For instance:

- If you don't leave the CO2 connected, but rather top it off once in awhile, having a smaller volume of headspace doesn't allow for as much CO2 to be "stored" there. If the equilibrium carbonation of the beer is lower than the headspace pressure, some will dissolve in, the pressure will drop to where they're equal, and that's it. Smaller headspace means less to dissolve in (and more beer to dissolve it into).

- The time factor... by the time the keg is getting emptier, it's been under CO2 pressure longer. More will have dissolved in.

- The surface area/volume ratio. If the keg is almost empty or almost full, it's got the same surface area exposed to the CO2. If the headspace pressure is higher than the equilbrium carbonation pressure, it can carbonate the smaller *volume* of an empty keg much quicker than if it's full.

: I pretty much fixed this problem by lowering the pressure to about 10 : psi and adding about 2 feet to the dispensing lines to better balance : the system. If you currently have 1/4" i.d. lines, you need to switch : to 3/16" i.d. lines to make the problem go away. If you already have : the smaller lines, then you need to go longer.

The 10 psi is what did it (although the longer lines didn't hurt the pour, probably). Bottom line is if you know what temp you're at and what carbonation level you want, if the headspace pressure stays at that pressure the beer will *NOT* change it's carbonation level. If anything, the pour should have less pressure when the keg is empty because the distance from the top of the beer level in the keg to the tap is less (i.e. less pressure drop due to gravity).

-Cory

Interesting. I would think the temp in the fridge would be more stable than outside, at least for me. My kegerator is in my basement near the furnace (only available spot a the moment). During the winter the heat off the furnace will raise the temp by 4 degrees.

I also noticed more foam towards the end of a keg, usually starting about

To the OP: you said "I don't have a thermostat in the fridge..." I assume you meant you don't have a thermometer in there. You really ought to get a thermometer and check the temperature.

If you have been changing the temperature setting on your keg fridge, that may have lead to over-carbonation. Let's say the fridge was at 35F and you charged it with 12 psi CO2 and left it for a week. That would give you 2.73 volumes of CO2. Now you tap your keg only to find it's too cold for your liking, so you raise the temperature to 40F. The CO2 that's in the beer isn't going to leave very fast, even if you let pressure out of the keg once. At 40F, the 2.73 volumes of CO2 will have a pressure of 14.8 psi.

A couple other thoughts: Have you looked at the regulator lately? If you set it at 12 psi at room temperature, then put it in the fridge, you will see a change in pressure due to the different operating characteristics of the regulator at the colder temps. I leave my tank and regulator in the fridge at home. If I take it to a party where the keg is in a bucket of ice and the tank is at room temperature, I find myself adjusting the regulator throughout the night as it warms up.

Are you sure you have 12 psi in the keg? If the regulator's gauge is "off", there is no telling what pressure you have in the keg unless you have a keg pressure tester (

Good Luck!

Make sure you open the tap all the way when you pour a glass, partially opening the tap in an attempt to "slow down the beer" will actually make the foaming worse.

If that's not it, then your system isn't balanced. Basically, the amount of carbonation you want, the serving temp of the beer, the pressure set on your regulator and the length/type of tubing are all related. If all of those elements are not balanced with each other, then you're going to have issues (usually foam).

It sounds to me like you are slowly over carbonating the beer. You should either try making your tubing longer or lowering the pressure on your regulator. It's not an exact science, but the rule of thumb for beverage tubing is that you get 2PSI for each foot of 3/16" tubing. If you're using 1/4" tubing then it's going to be much lower. It's better to have too much tubing than too little.

IMO, I would either try a 6 to 7 foot piece of tubing with 12PSI at the regulator, or if you want to keep the 5' then turn your regulator down to

John.

reasons why it might *seem* to make a difference,

What he said. Pressure is important, not necessarily volume.

John.

So lets say you have a setup with 5' of 3/16" tubing. If you make a different style you may have to change the length of your tubing? I can't dial down the regulator too much or I don't get a good pour, it trickles.

Could I have a 1'-2' section of 3/16" with 1/4" fittings to lengthen the line? Will these fittings add to foaming?

Yeah, basically. It's not exact, so you've got some wiggle room in there for various columes of CO2. However, if you want to serve a real ale at

More tubing is less of a problem than not enough tubing, up until the point where it slows your pour down to a trickle like you mentioned. Short of that extreme, it should at least give you a little room for flexibility.

One way you can get around it (if it's acceptable to you) is by varying the temp instead of the pressure or tubing length. IE, keep the pressure and line length the same, but drop the temp in order to increae the volumes of CO2. So, without changing the tubing you could get higher carbonation in the beer by serving it colder.

You could try it. Theoretically, fittings may cause some turbulance which could knock out CO2, but I don't know what would really happen. It sounds like a good idea though.

John.

I just dropped my temp down a bit.. I need to let it stablize to get a better temp reading though. Hopefully that will help.

It just seems like an easy way to add and remove length.. as long as it doesn't knoock out too much CO2.

I agree. Let us know how it works if you try it.

John.

I've seen gadgets that clamp the beer line between two metal plates for several inches to adjust the drop. I don't know how well they work.

Bob

These apparently do work. By spreading the constriction of the flow over several inches of the line, it slows the beer flow without creating turbulence that causes the foaming you would get if you just pinched the line in one small spot. Listermann sells one of these gadgets:

Wayne Bugeater Brewing Company

I lowered the temp a bit, but the first glass I pour is foamy. The next is fine. Its annoying, but I can deal for now.

Dan Listermann sells them. I don't use them, but they sound like a good idea. Dan's talked about them on here before.

John.