Okay, why aren't there more brewpubs in Los Angeles?

There are plenty of brewpubs in the LA area. As you know from living here (well, I'm assuming you live here), everything's spread all over the place around here, and looking for a concentration of anything is a fool's errand.

LA itself doesn't have much in the way of brewpubs. There's nothing about permitting, etc. that makes it more onerous to open a pub here than anywhere else. But real estate is insanely expensive, and the tax burden isn't exactly light. And the specific neighborhood you mention - the West Side - is doubly insanely expensive. Add in the fact that breweries of any sort take a lot of capital investment, and it takes a lot of money to get a pub open in LA.

(Note, there is one brewpub on the west side, Westwood Brewing Co, right by UCLA. And there's Bonaventure downtown.)

But the bigger reason, I'd say, is that LA is not really a beer town. Sure, there are plenty of good beers available here, and there are pubs in the greater LA area that I would hold up against any pub from any other city in the U.S. (Father's Office in Santa Monica, Lucky Baldwin's in Pasadena, Cafe Boogaloo in Hermosa Beach). There's bound to be good beer here just by sheer size of the place. But beer does not pervade the culture here like it does on the northern half of the west coast, starting from San Francisco on up. Hell, LA doesn't even come close to San Diego in terms of a beer culture. And so, there's not the built-in demand here like in other cities.

But as I mentioned earlier, you need to get outside of LA itself, and you'll start finding plenty of brewpubs. Some are chains - there are some Gordon Biersches and Rock Bottoms around, and there are plenty of BJ's pubs and restaurants (not all brew on premisis). But there are plenty of locals. Almost every city in the South Bay has at least one (Manhattan, Redondo, Torrance, plus one in San Pedro, which if I want to be pedantic is in LA). Long Beach has one of the better ones in the area, Belmont Brewing Co. There's one in Pasadena, there are several in Orange County.

Yeah, the concentration isn't as great in LA as it is in a lot of places. But as I said, LA's not really a beer town. Add in the cost of doing business here, and it's not tough to see that the market presents the obstacles, not any sort of regulatory issues.

-Steve

Thanks for the response.

There are some great tap houses (Fathers Office, Library Alehouse, Four Points Sheraton LAX for bottles), but Im definately missing the local craft beer culture here in Los Angeles. I get thta real estate is expensive, but its stange that both Westwood Brewing and Manhattan Beach Brewery are both in very high rent districts, yet have survived. Heck, every Brewski's survived for a long time, and its wasnt that good!

There's a lot more real estate in the greater LA area for brewpubs to hide :-). Portland is tiny in comparison.....

Try a very busy old favorite: Manhattan Beach Brewing Company

snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Library Alehouse: Meh. Truly a meh. Safe choices on tap. They're always out of Mendicino Hemp. Who cares?

That's a good one. But it will cost you $10 to park.

You're not willing to spend gasoline? Where do you think you are?

;-)

How much time have you spent in Westwood? Did you not see the boarded-up store fronts?

Well, it wasn't bad, was it?

So, lemme get this straight: Hermosa Beach qualifies as "LA" for you? What are you whining about again?

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

True. Mean it to be more expansive by including "area."

In English?

In that case, I meant what's within the borders of the actual city of Los Angeles. I tend to agree that "LA" is something more expansive in general, especially when speaking to people not from here. To locals, I'd say Santa Monica, Pasadena, etc. aren't really LA. Or maybe not. I don't know. It's not like I've lived her 40-some years.

No, it's not so expensive in Portland, in general (I'm sure some places like Full Sail paid a pretty penny for their spots). But, in general, New York is about the only place that's going to rival California for real estate prices. And, yeah, San Francisco will typically be worse than LA in that regard.

To me a "good beer town" is not about sheer volume of places. Yeah, in a place this huge (geographically and popuplation), you're going to find a lot. But good beer does not pervade here. Even accounting for the sprawl, you have to work harder to find good beer here than a lot of cities. You have to work less than a lot of cities too. Aside from the fact that Sierra is pretty much everywhere around here, you don't have circumstances where your odds are pretty good of walking into any random place and finding at least some good beer (Guinness does not count; AFAIC, it's gotten to the point where it's almost black Bud - yes I exaggerate a bit), unlike not only the PNW, but places like Denver, Chicago, SF, etc.

If you're not willing to drive for an hour for anything in this town, you'll frequently find yourself in that mood.

Yeah, it deserves calling out. Easy to forget that one because it's really only recently come back as a place worth going.

Enough to know it's from the same bird as far as sprawl goes.

Pizza Port, Oggi's, the aforementioned Stone and Alesmith. Just counting breweries, not brewpubs, LA County has only two: Craftsman and Angel City. San Diego County has Stone, Alesmith, Port, Karl Strauss, Ballast Point and probably a couple others I'm forgetting (looking up, I see Alpine and Green Flash, too, and I believe Oggi's are starting a non-pub brewery and distribtuion operation along the lines of Port as well).

LA catches up a bit if you want to include Orange County in the talley.

Didn't say they were all good. Just that they're there. (And I agree with your verdict on both.)

I need to revisit. I was not impressed by what I sampled there that one time we dropped in.

That's what I was thinking of. I think. There's that and the Gordon Biersch, at any rate.

I want multiple choices for good beer in walking distance. Oh, wait, I have that now.

-Steve

I think when most people talk about the Westside, they are speaking of the space between Santa Monica and LAX , west of the 405 freeway (then its called South Bay south of LAX)...

so the choices are Westwood brewing or BJ's (and BJ's isnt on-site), and Westwood brewing isnt truely westisde either, but that depends who you talk to. Im not denying that there are some breweries in Los Angeles, but just a major void on the space between Santa Monica, LAX and the 405 freeway..thats a lot of space not to have on-site brewing! There is a total void in Santa Monica, Venice, Marina Del Rey, Brentwood..all 'walking' communities, that do not have any local brew! why?

I was interested in hearing from anyone thats tried to open a brewery in Los Angeles, or especially the westside area, and hear their experiences. For how large Los Angeles is, it really doesnt have the quantity or quality local brew.

snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Why not call/visit the breweries?

Not sure what you're after. You admit that LA is a nebulous concept that cooks out to be a huge area, but you snivel about Quantity and Quality? You're simply not looking. You want someone to bring you growlers? Or...what? Maybe you should consider moving back to wherever the quantity and quality are better.

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

You're never going to see the kind of brewpub concentrations you find in OR or WA for the simple reason, we have sunshine! Why do you think all those people drink so much beer? Two reasons: 1) very restrictive liquor laws allowing only beer bars and 2) all that overcast weather is depressing as Hell. As a native CA boy, I was almost a teetotaler when I first moved to Salem OR. But, by time I moved back to CA a few years later I was a bona fide sot. And this was the pre-microbrewery

As for finding brewpubs in the LA area, you're just not looking. Do a Google for "california brewpubs".

nb

Pish and tosh. I've both parked near the Pilsner Room [*] and taken the free-zone bus there. That's a bad example of inaccessibility. And a scenic place to sit and have a few beers. (Right, Jeff?)

I did manage to take a bus to some other PR0TLAND place-- that place with a photo of Beercommie's dog-- but otherwise, yeah, things are spread out even there.

snipped-for-privacy@see.headers (Joel) wrote in news:dhbv00$riu$1 @badger.ncsa.uiuc.edu:

Frick and frack.

And I've parked near the Baghdad. Yes, it's possible to park 'round there. I'm guessing that people can actually visit the Pilsner Room. Just a guess - else it would not exist.

You may be able to one-up me, but it was an example that came to mind that others might be familiar with.

Lucky Lab. Bridgeport. Alameda. Edgefield.

Yes, spread out, parking is not a free multi-story structure half a block away in all cases. That's all I meant.

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

Wow you are a bit defense..but I guess thats the bait. Hey I love Los Angeles, settle down.

Relax, drink a beer, dude. There's always one of you on every newsgroup, youre not special...Im sure its the only way you get attention.

We're lucky, we've got three or four of them.

But that's okay, we've always got one of you "relax, drink a beer" guys around to say something predictable to them.

"Steve Jackson" wrote in news:BiJ_e.11988$qC4.6824@trnddc02:

Which is why I think don't think of LA in your contrived Rand McNally sense. I think most locals would agree. And, yes, The Walley did try to secede because, wait for it!...they're not really part of Los Angeles. They don't think they are. We don't think they are. Draw your lines. Go dude go. Draw draw draw. Reseda: Part of La City. Knock on doors and ask. Draw. Knock. Draw.

Sure we should be discussing why Rochefort 8 is better'n the 10. But, well, for those wondering whatthefuck!? at home:

They apparently have beers contract-brewed by Firestone. (Firestone makes some damn fine beers. We buy the Porter by the case in Buellton.) Pubcrawler has nice things to say about Weiland - might be worth a visit.

I'm just angry at pretty much everything.

:-)

We went to Library Alehouse and Father's Office. A re-creation of the Jackson Tour oh-so-many years ago. And The Bruce did give me massive amounts of shit for giving a homeless guy a buck and also for refusing to cross against the red. So that was good, too.

I agree wholeheartedly. You know Her name. You have all the relevant phone numbers. Make it so. I'll buy the flowers and the Porter, you make the pitch.

On a Tuesday night, I guess my claim falls to the ground. 20x2 to the BBC or 60x2 to the RBC. But the point is driving. Randall wants to know why there aren't more brewpubs in LA. I want to know what he means by "LA". You've told me. You're an idiot. He hasn't told me. So I blather.

I simply feel that "LA" is a nebulous concept and I distinguish between what I think of as LA City and the LA Area. The former (?) Country Club Brewing in Northridge is in LA City apparently. But The Red Car in Torrance is in the LA Area (and a vastly more worthy destination). There's a fabulous BJ's in Brea. LA? Not LA? What's your definition of LA again?

You see how it gets fuzzy quick? Sylmar is within your Rand McNally definition. Los Angeles City - yeah, sure. Sylmar has soooo much in common with Exposition Park and MacArthur Park and Chavez Ravine and the Bowl and the Miracle Mile and Los Feliz and the Beverly Center and Boyle Heights (we MUST haul your repugnant hide to the Watts Towers and El Mercado sometime) and Holmby Hills and...

I agree, it's a bit of gem down there.

Er, I mean, that part of San Pedro is worth visiting. And if the SPBC proves unsatisfactory there's always the Whale and Ale (Worthy of your attention at least once if only because they sponsor the free Shakespeare in the Park at Point Fermin. Yes. They do a good thing. Buy a beer from them.) which is a reasonable facsimile of a soCal intrepretation of a British pub.

Oh by the way, we can add another to your Rand McNally-defined list: San Pedro Brewing Company is in LA CITY, nice 'n' proper. Hell, Villaraigosa lives there (Or he did up until very recently when he moved in to the Mansion - something I would have done an hour after I was elected but then I probably wouldn't have been elected on my More Brewpubs for LA platform. Hann lived in Pedro the whole time he was mayor, I believe.) If Pedro is LA, then so is Torrance. And Hermosa, and Santa Monica...

Er...am I off topic?

One of the things I like about the brewpub hobby is that it often leads us to neighborhoods we wouldn't otherwise visit.

The Alameda brewpub in Portland (Or is it in Alameda?) is a good example. Never would have thought to go there but for the brewpub. Fabulous little neighborhood - we spent an hour walking around after lunch even though we had a plane to catch.

SPBC, and the Lane Victory, Maritime Museum, views of the harbor and the Vincent Thomas bridge, the tide pools...Hell, the drive there is fun no matter how you do it. A nice way to spend a day, I think. Take a date to the tide pools and fondle sea hares. Is that a test or what? You'll know right away if you'll get lucky, but at least you'll get to fondle sea hares...

Yeah, not sure what they are trying to achieve. Seemed like what it was before worked for 20 years... Glass-top cases with fancy...I don't even know. Corkscrews? Whatever. Pretty versions of something I already have. That new tasting room, though...I wish my living room was that nice.

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

-- Drink any good beer lately? -- The three-sentence posters support me in email. -- My mommy is prettier'n your mommy.

snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I hate beer.

You're mistaken. There's an *anonymous* bully on most froups. I am NOT anonymous. You think I made my name up? You can't find me on the 'net/web...you're not looking.

I'm some dumbass with a keyboard.

You?

Yup. Spot on. I can't tell the difference between "Engles" and "Engels".

Again I ask: You?

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA

They do? I don't think so. You're full of it.

You know, I keep meaning to ask... what is this "email" you guys keep talking about?

"Steve Jackson" wrote in news:AL2%e.18838$SG3.9088@trnddc07:

Well, if I were you, I wouldn't do it for that reason, but I would do it. If I were you.

Ya know...rereading...apparently Randall demands a brewpub on the Westside. I guess we didn't plop one down where he needs it. Sorry 'bout that, Randall.

And then he wants to hear from those that have tried to open a brewpub in...what?, LA? The "Westside"? alt.beer is where *I* would post if I had a question like that...

No, I was vomiting up my own excrement at the mere thought of what is called South County 'round here. You may not have been vomitous, but you could not wait until your lease was up. Sorry I didn't put a fine point on that until just now.

Brea LA Area contrivance: I gotta go through Brea from Long Beach to get to the LA County Fairgrounds.

Must remedy that.

BJ's is a fabulous brewpub (chain, not all locations brew). They make very good beer. Very good. Unfortunately, they dropped their gem-in- the-rough when they closed the Seal Beach location. Most character, most friendly, most neighborhoodly. Most shame. The rest are higly yuppified but very much worth visiting IMO.

You snivel because you do not feel that their pizza (which is likewise fabulous) is not truly Chicago-style as billed.

This makes you a pizza snob in addition to a car snob, a driving snob, a beer snob, a County snob, a Sticke snob, and a music snob.

God I love that about you.

San Pedro is within LA City by the Rand McNally (and therefore your) definition. Not mine. Not LA City. Jump up and down. Speak German. Rage. Rail. Whatever...

Well, you *did* drive...

Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA