Beer Festivals 2005

Is "campainging" whinging about CAMRA? Spot-on topic here if it is.

Is it ?

Advertising a festival a long time in advance makes sure that your prospective customers don't organise something else that day ! To take the case in point, the web site I mentioned earlier is for a local society of which three of us are "real ale fans". However we could probably persuade up to thirty others to come to a festival, if we were given enough notice of that festival. However as is looking more and more likely we won't get that notice, so other social events will get booked up first.

Which is a shame.

I disagree with this totally. Perhaps I'm in the small minority but I am an international member of CAMRA. I come over to the UK once a year and I always make it a point to attend atleast one beer festival per visit. Since I am shelling out over 20 pounds a year for the privilege of being a member I would like to make the most of my short time in the UK (main goal is to consume as many quality pints, or in case of a beer festival, half pints as I can). Is it asking too much to be able to make plans far in advance? I usually end up figuring that somewhere in England there will be a beer festival the week (sometimes 2 weeks) that I am there and end up adjusting my travel plans to be near where a beer festival is going on.

Cheers,

Bruce CAMRA member from New Jersey

If not why is CAMRA the Campaign for real ale?

I am sure it is burried somewhere in one of the CAMRA policy documents.

I did not dispute that advertising a long time in advance may make some difference. However the vast majority of such people will already be beer drinkers. More punters does not necessarily equal more campainging.

As far as I am concerned the value in a festival is in getting a alcopop drinker to actually try some good beer/cider/perry. Having people who have had to be pursaded to come in say thanks as they leave at the end of the night is what it is all about.

Although I understand your position I question how much your needs are consistent with why the beer festival is there. Why do you consider that many people give up many evenings and a week or more of their leave in order to run a festival?

I guess it all depends on if you consider CAMRA to be primarily campaingning organisation or primarily social group for people interested in cask conditioned beer.

If CAMRA is a campaining organisation and given that it has limited volenteer effort a choice has to be made as to how to use that effort. Your situation, IMO, does not show that advertising a festival on a web site a long time in advance makes very little difference to the campainging value of the festival.

I can't see how anyone could sustain the argument that beer festivals are in any way "campaigning" Beer festivals ARE a social event for "people interested in cask conditioned beer." If you have difficulty with this position, I suggest you:

And to go back to the start of this thread, it's quite unfair to people volunteering to give up their time, if their efforts cannot be appreciated due to a lack of publicity of their efforts.

OK - so if "we" want to "campaign for real ale" then festivals are demonstrably not the way forward. Open air town centre tasting sessions would acheive far more.

So why do we have beer festivals ? For myself a social event, pure & simple. Just like any other social event. OK - there's an element of campaigning in that I can dragoon a load of other people to come along But unless the beer festivals are announced far enough in advance they will not be attended as other events will be pencilled in first.

I would guess that fund raising is one reason.

Paul

The main group that the festival is a social event for is the body of people that are there every year - behind the counters and building the whole setup.

The fact that visitors consider it a social event is a testament to the promotion of the event as a fun thing. It's far easier to speak to people about how things should be in your view of the world if you happen to be demonstrating one portion of that world view at a social event they are enjoying.

I don't know many, and where I've seen it done it was because the venue was in a low trade area and thus to make it viable you have to make the travelling easy.

I think there is little passing trade for most pubs and they are fixed features rather than a handful of day long ephemera.

Buttonhole people in the high street: "Excuse me sir/madam would you like to have a sip or two of this beer and avoid the police on your way home?" No, I don't think that will catch on. Street sales is a difficult game and doesn't convey the other part of the package in that pubs are social centres and promoting a social centre is always best done from the centre itself or from somewhere similar.

One thought for people:

Why is it that so many of the small niggles/complaints about larger festivals (and particularly the Great British Beer Festival) involve the things missing from the festival that are there in the pubs?

I disagree, the OP wasn't unhappy about a *lack* of publicity, it was the short notice from his viewpoint. Whether the branches concerned can do anything to address this without running into the problem of needing budget approval before they start with the major publicity is the real question.

If the staff of the Great British Beer Festival all took just part of the money they spend on getting to the venue and feeding and watering themselves while there and put it into a collection bucket we could do the fund raising without having to let customers into a big rented shed for the event. The thing is without the fun part no one would do it. You have to consider the social side. The building and annual meeting of the extended family goes along way on the motivation road.

The OP was me :o) I was using the terms " *lack* of publicity"& "short notice" synonymously.

Agreed, but surely these beer festivals aren't spur of the moment ideas. Why can't festivals be announced with a "provisional date subject to funding"

Scenario: Branch fails to produce a properly costed budget and therefore cannot have the funds required to buy in the beer stock for the festival.

Previously announced festival doesn't happen.

Potential customer complains about "cancellation" Much explanation that it wasn't cancelled since it was never approved. Customer complains about having re-arranged holidays etc to match. Shall I go on?

This not a MS Windows 95 delivered (badly) in 1996 type of operation.

Come now Steve, that is pretty feeble. Events of _all_ kinds can be cancelled for _all_ sorts of reasons. That is no reason not to advertise them as early as possible in advance.

John B

Simply tell the customer to "wind his neck in" as the festival was announced as "provisional date subject to funding"

What's happening at the moment is that we can't plan for the festivals at all.

Take for example July / August 2005. The club I'm organising a diary for has a lot of weekend activities already booked for that time period. I could have something for every weekend already, but I'm holding four weekends free as we guess from previous experience that three beer festivals will be on some of those weekends. (Two are non-CAMRA). We've contacted the organisers who remain non-committal.

So what do we do?

Do we keep those weekends clear in case the festivals happens ? Do we make other plans ? - There's plenty of other activities we could do.

If the festival has taken place during the past five or more years it's probably a good bet it will happen again next year, even if the budget hasn't been approved.

The 2005 Stockport Beer & Cider Festival will take place from 2-4 June at Edgeley Park. But the budget hasn't been approved yet.

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If the organisers cannot give you a confirmed date you are snookered. You cannot force them. There may well be numerous reasons for their reluctance, from staffing availability to venue matters. You could always put in a "Mystery Event" to your diary. It is the same situation as any events you may organise. Try being a bit flexible.

You could, but I wouldn't.

I think you've answered your own question.

John B

I said it was one reason, I didn't say it was the only reason.

Paul

Yes.

Which is unfortunate. I was hoping to do the beer festivals.

Plan on that then, and include a tour of the local pubs in the same visit. Then if the festival isn't there to match your visit the pubs get more of your time. I'm told visiting pubs is actually quite popular and has been known to rival beer festivals. :-)

They quite often are, on the CAMRA website and in the form of flyers and posters at other festivals, particularly at GBBF where many Autumn and Winter festivals make good use of the advertising opportunity. Public promotion of a "provisional" festival is rarer, as this generally involves spending larger amounts of money - which a provisional festival doesn't have authority to do.

Established CAMRA festivals rarely move more than a couple of weeks year on year; it's not beyond the capability of most people to contact the branch involved (via HQ if branch is unknown) and ask them what the dates are for the next one.

Cheers, Ian