Beery News - London Guinness runs dry . . .

It's a strange business and no mistake. I was in Dublin a couple of months ago and heard that Diageo were thinking the unthinkable - to close St. James's Gate! It would now seem to have swung the other way which will mean that all of the UK and on both sides of the Irish border will be drinking Dublin Guinness soon, probably the first time that's happened since Park Royal opened in the 30s. I presume back then that the UK's Guinness - then of course in cask form - would've come over by ship to Holyhead and then down the A5 etc. I wonder how long it took to settle! They still set great store over the arrangement that they had once upon a time for small bottlers to bottle it for local markets but this benignity did not extend to the small brewers of Ireland, as Guinness consistently bought them up and closed them down, therefore effectively eliminating much in the way of competition.

Whether this will add to the age-old argument that the Dublin product is still superior to the UK one or whether it's down to the keeping/serving of it remains to be seen. Despite not having a single pub to their name, Diageo still manage to 'persuade' publicans and their staff to keep and serve the big G a certain way in Ireland, something which seems rarer on this side of the Irish Sea.

Cheers or rather slainte mhor! Al in London

Ps St.James's Gate could still be a victim of commercial expediency. Apparently Diageo has a massive plant in Nigeria which could easily produce enough Guiness - both draught and packaged - for the whole world!

months ago and heard that

would now seem to have

of the Irish border

happened since Park

I think the answer lies in the Waterford suggestion. New plant, more space. Dublin land - Money!!!

-- Tony Morgan

At least up until the 1950's (possibly later) Guinness did however make use of regional Irish (brewers? &) soft-drinks bottlers to package their stout for the local market - my Mum remembers this from working in a small softdrinks company in Co. Monaghan - from her descriptions it sounds like they were still using oak barrels (i.e.36gal)

but does Nigeria still ban (/heavily tax?) imports of barley/malt? In which case this beer would all be Nigerian-sorghum-brewed Guinness & IMO taste like cough syrup & roast-barley - mmmm!

I can't see it myself, but if Coke can sell (occasionally Bromate contaminated) tapwater for 3000 times(*) the price it comes out of the tap? :~) (*) according to a quote in today's Observer Food Mag. cheers MikeMcG

In message , MikeMcG writes

Nigerian Guinness is prized, a spectacularly different version of Guinness more correctly described as 'vinous' than 'cough syrup'.

Its not obvious that the brewery would be capable of producing a good copy of the much weaker and less matured UK/Ireland version or how it would be cost effective to ship to the UK. Seems unlikely to me.

well, it wasn't vinous to me - I tried it at a Guinness tasting I organised with colleagues at Brakspear's (between us over 50 years of brewing experience). We tried FES, & BCA-Original, J.Martens & the nitro-bottle (all AFAIK Dublin-brewed) & the Nigerian FES.

I posted the following here about it-

All 6 or so of us thought it was foul, tho not infected or oxidised, just bloody weird & not in an "Oh I could get to like this Rauchbier/Lambic" kind of way.

However, I will try it again next time I see it.

Is maturation a big part of the production of Nigerian Guinness? (I knew it used to be a part of Dublin's FES - brettanomyces character from the oak maturation, but as I saw the oak from the tuns for sale by a US timber firm a while back, I assumed it wasn't matured in quite the same way anymore :~)

& no, nor can I see the African plants supplying UK & Eire just yet. For economic & PR reasons.

BTW does anyone know if all Nigerian beer was/is sorghum-brewed & if their Guinness still is? cheers MikeMcG

still superior to

seen. Despite

publicans and their

which seems rarer on

In my experience, Guinness in Ireland is served through different dispense equipment from that which is available to publicans this side of the channel. It appears to be delivered at a greater pressure, resulting in a much longer settling period prior to the top-up, whic I think contributes greatly to the difference in consistency and flavour. The British drinker (IMHO) is not normally prepared to wait that long for a pint :-( In addition, I know of at least one pub in Ireland that does not use gas bottles for Guinness, but has an air compressor in the cellar that produces the required pressure. This gives approx 80/20 Nitrogen to CO2 mix, whereas my Guinness gas is a 70/30 mix. Nitrogen bubbles are smaller than CO2, therefore have a greater surface tension to surface area ratio which makes them less susceptible to bursting. It is this that gives nitro-keg beers the thick creamy head that seems to be so desirable these days.

Cheers, Phil

German Beer Festival this weekend (5pm 23/4/4 - 11pm 24/4/4)

Is Nigerian Guinness generally available[1] anywhere in the UK, ideally the Croydon area, as I've often wondered what it is like?

[1] without sending a small fee to the wife of a brewery top official who had a tragic automobile accident and left USD10m in an old beer bottle in Amsterdam. :-)

In article , MikeMcG writes

Hence things like "Morton's Red Heart Guinness" bottles in some of the more out of the way pubs.

Steve

In article , Arthur Figgis writes

When Iain Turnbull (formerly of the Fisherrow Brewery - he's now brewing a beer for the "Save Hearts" campaign) went out to Nigeria to rescue a brewery there last summer, we fully expected to get back a letter offering millions of gallons of beer in exchange for a token amount of malt, hops and yeast. Oh, and access to a bank account.

I did suggest he do a beer called "419er", though....

Steve

I'm sure on name alone it would sell to a certain section of real-ale enthusiasts!