Cyclops

IMHO a good thing

Don't see why. I see it as a genuine attempt to inform people of the style, aroma, colour, and taste of beers which may or may not appeal to them. If I was a youngster (I wish!) approaching real ale for the first time I *think* I'd find it a rather useful guide to the types of beers I like

Do you consider this to be the most important quality of a beer? IMHO (again), it's only one of several, and probably the least important. The Mordue system looks good on a computer screen, but in a somewhat darker environment of many pubs and some festivals it may be difficult to differentiate the scale. The Cyclops is primarily a "simple" system to assist people in the selection of of beer

KeithS

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:32:46 +0000, KeithS wrote (in message ):

People? Which people? It only speaks to existing real ale drinkers whilst blithely ignoring how the "outside world" may perceive it. There's already enough baggage being dragged by real ale.

A major part of the rhetoric of camra/real ale is about pursuading the non-real ale drinker that real ale is a better option. Unfortunatley the world of real ale ignores and disregards its own poor image in the eyes of the non-converted beer drinker (often spouting the facile and trite rejoinder "it's what's in the glass that matters", or words to that effect).

No I don't personally consider it the most important quality of a beer

- I consider it the most obvious feature that could be demonstrated to the unconverted drinker - given that mainstream lager drinkers often declare an aversion to dark and heavy it seems sensible to at least demonstrate that not all RA is dark.

OK, you come up with a better method. I don't understand your difficulty in differentiating between Pale Straw, Golden, Amber, Auburn, Copper, Chestnut Brown, Dark Ruby, Black. They describe colours, quite graphically. Can you not appreciate that Pale Straw and Golden are a lighter colour than dark Ruby or Black? I'd have thought that even the densest lager drinker could figure that one out. *That* sort of people, amongst many others.

Sorry? It *is* what is in the glass that matters, otherwise we'd all be drinking Watneys Draught Red Barrel, or lager. The Cyclops idea is to allow the drinker, informed or uninformed, to decide which one he's likely to want to try. It describes the style, colour (which seems incredibly important to you), it describes what smell(s) you're likely to get, and what taste(s) you're likely to get. Difficult to think what other information the potential drinker would want. But perhaps you know better? Please let us know.

But the "mainstream lager drinkers" can get the colour information from the Cyclops system. I'd suggest they would pick Pale Straw or Golden rather than Dark Ruby or Black, wouldn't you?

Also, don't forget there are also many other beer drinkers, enthusiasts, occasional drinkers, what have you, who want to try different beers. They also need guidance as to the beer's attributes.

Some typical quotes from drinkers trying out various beers at the last beer festival I worked at: Something a bit sweeter. A bit lighter Hoppier Heavier

KeithS

The obvious other factor would be the extent to which it makes you fall over.

(I guess I'm the only one with no idea what Cyclops is, assuming it is nowt to do with mythology or the Milton Brewery)

For those who had not heard of Cyclops:

Not that it will help convert people like a one time friend who drank lager "because the darker it is, the more it sends me to sleep". Or those who think that all that matters is that some crackpot commercial on TV says you should drink it.

Me I prefer cider, but only from bottles that swim upstream looking for ice. :-)

That's covered in the ABV which should be on the label

I'd suggest they might need to work on the publicity, as I've not noticed it, despite frequenting real ale pubs.

To take you to task here.

The way a person gets a concept of beer can be dependant on lots of factors. The fundamental one is taste and this can vary throughout the day. You wake up and clean your teeth, but don't take breakfast and you will taste one beer a different way than when you breakfast on say, wheetabix. What has been in your mouth before you taste beer will alter what you taste. As will aroma, if your nose is not in tip top condition.

The style of a beer is something that cannot be conveyed to a new drinker of real ale.

Then we come to colour. To my mind, this is a major consideration in my choice of beer and I prefer the light coloured beers. I drink in a real ale pub in Lancashire every lunch time. I regularly see customers come in and ask for a pint of bitter (It is a passing trade pub, not a regulars pub). Whoever is serving, unless it is the landlord, will look to me for help. My first question is 'do you like a dark or light beer?' This splits the choice in half, usually.

This pub has two regular beers which I regard as standards for excellence, one fairly dark and the other light and crisp. The first is any of the Timothy Taylor brews and the second is anything from The Coniston brewery. They both epitomize the difference between dark and light beers.

Regards

Dave

Totally agree with you. I've only seen it at a couple of beer festivals.

I don't disagree with you on this point. However, for any system designed to inform about beers, the 3 fundamentals are colour, aroma and taste. It's taken as read in the wine world that descriptions of the wine based on these points are a pointer to the type of wine you may want to try. Why shouldn't it also be the case in the world of beer? If we restrict the description to colour only, it doesn't convey much information.

No, but then again, a description of a beverage such as tea, coffee, cocoa doesn't mean much to someone who has never tasted them. You have to start somewhere. If you've already drunk tea, coffee, or cocoa, then you'll know if that's the style of beverage you want to try. Before I drank beer, I had no idea what the different styles were. It's only by actually drinking them, at least once, that you understand what that particular style is.

I'm afraid we must agree to disagree on this point. It's the least important consideration in my choice. However, in Cyclops, colour *is* described, as is aroma and taste. It's a fairly simple system, but it's meant to be. If it was any more simple it wouldn't convey much information at all and therefore not be of much use.

It was launched at last year's Great British Beer Festival, and at least one of the festival's organising committee had never heard of it until after the launch...

I am not sure that I understand the word 'style' about beers, but that might just be me :-)

I have discussed this with my fellow real ale drinkers and they rate colour as the first thing they look at. It may be something that is a South/North thing, as I had a very nice Horndean brewery HSB in Portsmouth over the last 3 months. That is a dark beer but very nice to drink. And I am not a lover of most dark beers :-) I went to have a pint of it the day after Boxing day and I was bitterly (no pun intended) disappointed to find that when he pulled a pint it had ended, finished, gone off, ended no more for the next hour. I was going home to Preston in an hour.

So why did you write above?

start quote.'

However, for any system designed to inform about beers, the 3 fundamentals are colour, aroma and taste.

End quote

I have to admit that I have never come across Cyclops in my chase for real ale. Is it something that has started in the South?

Regards

Dave

Do you prefer (for examples only) bitter to stout, or porter to lager? Then you understand what 'style' (or 'type') of beer is.

Yes, but see my statement at [1] below.

It may be something that is a

Certainly no disagreement there, I think it's a lovely brew as well :)

North/South thing? I was born in Preston too! :) But to be honest I've travelled around and lived in many places, and live 'darn Sarf ennit' now.

As I agreed with Arthur Figgis above, it certainly hasn't spread like wildfire. I guess you could say it started down South, I *think* (please don't quote me on this) it started at last year's GBBF, and I've seen it at one or two beer festivals since.

Extract from a CAMRA press release:

"Date: Thursday 18th January 2007 ­ For immediate use   CAMRA launch new Œlicensee¹ and Œconsumer¹ phase of Cyclops   CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale, today unveiled a new phase of the Cyclops campaign for licensees and their customers, which aims to demystify the complexities of real ale, during the National Winter Ales Festival in Manchester.   Initially launched by Everards Brewery in March 2006, Cyclops was embraced by CAMRA and launched industry-wide with 14 brewery partners last August, after CAMRA commissioned research revealed that 1 in 3 adults thought a universal scheme which simplified real ale would encourage them to try more real ale.   ³We were delighted with the initial 14 breweries that signed up as Cyclops partners in August 2006 as they own pubs and distribute beer across the whole of Britain. This now means Cyclops is a universal real ale tasting scheme that can be developed to play its part in increasing real ale sales nationally.² said Tony Jerome, CAMRA¹s Senior Marketing Manager.    Jerome explains how Cyclops works, ³Cyclops uses easy to understand descriptions and distinctive eye, nose and mouth symbols to help inform and educate occasional or new real ale drinkers of what different beers look, smell and taste like before they even try or buy a beer. Cyclops also promotes the style and strength of the beer and gives each real ale a score out of five for how bitter and sweet the beer is.²   Since the initial launch at the Great British Beer Festival last August, Cyclops continues to build on its success with interest from a further 25 breweries who are looking to participate within the next few months.    New Developments: Promoting Cyclops to the consumer and licensee To help consumers understand how the actual scheme works, and where to look for material, CAMRA has produced a Cyclops information leaflet which it hopes will increase real ale sales for all the breweries participating in Cyclops. The leaflet will be distributed to thousands of pubs across Britain by CAMRA members.   David Bremner, Head of Marketing for Everards and the inspiration behind Cyclops, said: ³For Cyclops to continue having an impact on the real ale market, more Cyclops partners need to produce eye catching Point of Sale material and distribute to the pubs across Britain.²   Bremner continued, ³CAMRA¹s new Cyclops leaflet, and more breweries supporting the scheme, will help to increase the consumer awareness of this initiative and lead to more people understanding and drinking real ale.²   While a number of the breweries have already produced Cyclops tasting material, others are still finalising their plans while existing stocks of promotional material are used up. CAMRA and Everards felt it was important to continue the promotion of the scheme.   Tony Jerome explained ³It is important that we now promote Cyclops to licensees and consumers as there is a lot of support from the real ale industry for this initiative and it is vital to keep the impetus of this campaign going. As some of the Cyclops partners Point of Sale material hasn¹t been completed yet, we thought it would be important to develop some Cyclops templates that will allow licensees to produce their own Cyclops Point of Sale material such as posters, leaflets and table-toppers to help promote the real ales they have on sale in Cyclops format.² Licensees can now visit the Cyclops website

Well meaning though it may be, I still can't help thinking it's going to be added to the list of tiresome cliches - sandals, beards etc - in snide pieces by unimaginative journalists.

Sipped.

Thanks for that info. It will be interesting to see it roll out up here.

Regards

Dave

Hope it had sufficient flavour. :-)

I'm glad you said that. It's a one-eyed monster in Greek mythology to me.

Although she started looking pretty fit after the sixth pint.