GBBF 2008

The GBBF does seem to be about far more than selling beer, among other things it's apparently a vehicle for providing corporate hospitality. Quite what a group founded to campaign on behalf of the ordinary consumer is doing in the corporate hospitality market is a question that hasn't really received the attention that it deserves. How is providing privileged, first class access to an event for people on a corporate jolly advancing the aims of CAMRA?

Raising the profile?

By getting a few junior execs from a 2nd rate firm pissed for free/on the cheap. They then go back to there normal haunts drinking the amber nectar etc.

Pete Y

p.s. Comments by the cook Oliver, as reported in today's papers, don't help the cause either.

No idea - never been involved.

Comments by the cook Oliver, as reported in today's papers, don't

Actually I think they do. He is talking about the binge culture which is fueled by cheap fizz from supermarkets - the other end of the scale from real ale.

My observations on the points I have an issue with...

Actually most people prefer the location of Earls Court but Olympia as a venue.

Too simplistic. You are not comparing like with like. GBBF is unique and as others have said requires unique circumstances. In addition CAMRA HQ has nothing to do with the location for the event.

What do you mean by corporate? Have no problem with the next bit - if it wishes to be a sucessful campaigning organisaiton then yes absolutely.

This is all mixed up. It fails to recognise that some beers are cheaper than others - see previous point about Cannon Royall mild.

Bulk purchase discounts. The cheapest way to purchase the GBG is by direct debit.

Totally meaningless. Who are these mysterious "corporate boys" you are on about?

There are lots of great CAMRA beer festivals but they are not the same as GBBF! Plus the national executive only make up a proportion of the GBBF working party.

This is all very much my mate said stuff but anway... No to the second bit. If the first bit is true then you'd need to explain how that square's with the record volunteer staffing numbers this year. Finally if these grass routes members are unhappy they can always put themselves forward for the working party and to make their comments known via the staff comment form.

Well of course it isn't! CAMRA to some extent has become a self-perpetuating monster, particularly at national level.

It's ironic that an organisation that purports to condemn over-priced beer is prepared to charge £3 a pint at its flagship event, despite the fact that you can go round the corner and drink similar real ales for under £2.50. And, in other parts of the country, similar beers for well under £2. 'Well' under. Yet another reason to re-locate their flagship event. (Won't ever happen sadly, too many snouts in too many troughs for that).

It sends out the wrong message. It suggests that CAMRA is an organisation at the end of its useful life. It's done a fantastic job up to now, but the lure of commerce and making money has turned it into something far different from its original inception, which , I think, was something to do with campaigning for real ale.

Michael Jones a écrit :

By using the opportunity to reach out to that kind of audience with a "there's more than Carling to beer" message. A good few of the groups taken care of by "corporate hostility" also book tutored beer tastings. Having led some of them over the past four years, I can tell you they're filling a much-needed gap in beer awareness among them suits... it can get pretty hairy at times, but is IMHO worth the effort.

allow me to interject with mine, having worked at 30 GBBFs and been on the organising committee for 5.

Who are these "most people"? We moved from a greenhouse, with its toll on staff, punters and beer through the excessive heat, to a car park.

No, the venues are far, far too small for current needs (in fact they don't exist any more!). That's why they don't earn so much income.

No they don't: that is done by the Finance Committee, who are mostly volunteers (ie. Camra members like you).

Wrong. We'd love to drop the beer prices, but the brewery sales people are greedy and won't even give us discounts for bulk buying. (I'd love to name names but I think I might get shot if I do). However, giving away beer is a distinct no-no in the current licensing climate.

Dunno. Ask Wetherspoons how they've managed to twist the arms of those brewers foolish enough to supply them with cheap ale. I know of one brewer (no longer brewing) whose wife went in hospital, and who himself nearly had a nervous breakdown because of JDW's attitude towards small brewers.

That's true for any book published anywhere in the world. Ask the Book Depository how they manage to negotiate pricing discounts. I suspect it's because if you buy from Amazon you're not contributing towards the coffers of the campaign.

"Corporate boys"? Do you mean those volunteers who give up lots of spare time (and only claiming bona fide expenses, if they bother to claim at all

- I didn't for quite a few years) to try and organise the national festivals? Corporate - if I ever meet you sonny...

The National Executive of Camra are involved now with the National Festivals. That was not always the case: I remember one Great British Beer Festival where not one National Executive member bothered to even turn up! You are completely wrong - the national festivals are run by volunteers - just like you and me.

You don't listen to those people who don't go then, or who go and have to leave because there's nowhere for disabled people (or tired people) to sit, or find it much more conducive to a good time to drink in the pubs in those towns. I'm one of them.

Is there?

I won't work at my local festivals because I don't find them well run, and my attempts at offering constructive criticism either fall on deaf ears or get greeted with abuse.

Because we won't get the staff (school holidays)?

We know those in charge don't always get everything right. But at least they're trying and not sniping from the sidelines. Why don't you try and become more involved at national festivals?

So who do you think are in this "corporate hospitality market"?

Having worked in this section for a couple of years, I can tell you it's nearly always existing Camra members who want to educate the people they work with in real ale. It's another campaigning tool, and shouldn't be decried so easily. Why don't you come and work a session at Great British Beer Festival next year in the corporate hospitality team and see for yourself?

In message , Brett... wrote

I believe you will find that it's cheaper to buy the GBG at Amazon and if the total purchase at Amazon is over £15 the price includes postage.

When grass root membership becomes dissatisfied and p***** off with always being told that the only way to change the organisation is to become a lot more active than they wish to be they tend to stop being 'active' in any form.

Ah so there we have it! The GBBF is all about making money.

Bet most 9's are considerably less than £70 which is less than £1 a pint. Other festivals sell at considerably less than the GBBF. One festival I attended a few months ago sold beer at £1.50 a pint and still made a decent profit.

'Foolish enough'? Selling beer to an organisation which sells about

Are you saying that CAMRA make nothing out of selling at wholesale prices to Amazon et al? Surely if they make anything then you're 'contributing towards the coffers of the campaign.'

..but the local festivals are still better value.

So no loyalty to or respect for other CAMRA festivals then! Thought you might have demonstrated a bit of mutual support.

There are quite a few school holiday periods to choose from.

A lot of us get involved in local CAMRA and pub festivals and simply don't have to time and resources to come to London.

Not forgetting that the school summer holidays (in England) is 6 weeks from late July to end August. The 2012 games start at the end of July, and I'd expect the Paralympics will start a couple of weeks after the main games finish. According to the London 2012 site, Earls Court is only needed for the Olympics and not the paralympics, so there is still a couple of weeks mid to end of August which could be available for GBBF instead of the first/second week. Maybe do a date swap with Peterborough and have that at the start of August and GBBF across (or finishing) on the Bank Holiday weekend.

Matt

Then you are not comparing like with like.

Name me a volunteer run organisation that pleases all it's members all the time?

Two simple questions for M Platting:

Do the current membership levels for CAMRA indicate an organisation that is at the end of its useful life?

How do you campaign without money?

In message , Brett... wrote

OK, there is a postage charge with Amazon unless you can include something else for at least £5.26 with the same order such as another CAMRA publication or something else such as the Good Pub Guide. Orders for £15 can have a free p&p.

I usually buy my CAMRA publications from Amazon via a local CAMRA branch 'click through' site. Possible less money to CAMRA HQ but more to spend where it matters - drinking real ale in pubs.

CAMRA is no probably no different from any other bureaucratic organisation.

No kidding? Next May I'm traveling 3,000 miles to go to the Cambridge Beer Festival (after stopping in Derby and Sheffield, down to the Rugby festival, across to Leicester, Norwich and Peterborough).

In article , PeterE writes

In a medium noted for attracting insanely stupid remarks, that is one of the all-time stupidest that I have ever read.

Roy.

Been there, done the checking. Kept me occupied for a while. However it has been a few years so if you have the spare time trot out and check a few venues capable of holding a festival 75% of the size or better and then pass on the suggestions to any member of the National Executive or the working party.

The suggestions *will* be listened to as despite the comments here the people concerned personally gain nothing from the event aside from a general feeling of total knackeredness.