Manifesto

Following on from Tim Jones's message. . .

CAMRA as far as most people are concerned is about a decent news paper and*local* branch activities/knowledge.

If you want to explore a variety of real ale haunts then tap up the local branch. Go to their BF and see what sort of people they are. Hint: They vary. You may find another branch more to your liking.

I'm not a member, but then I know lots of the people in the trade, in CAMRA and would rather 'do my bit' to preserve choice, tradition, great flavours and civilised social drinking the way I choose instead of getting tangled up with local CAMRA - some of whom are well past their sell-by date. - So join for a year to see what's in it for you. Don't worry about the finer points of campaigning until you've got a bit more insight into the grey areas, running sores and 'haven't we all been here before' issues.

I'm not sure the second part of that statement is at all true. Most people don't go near their local branch, at least to start with. What joining CAMRA does is to lend your support to an organisation campaigning for real ale and a whole host of other things of interest to a beer drinker. You get two monthly newspapers, What's Brewing, which is mostly about the campaigning side of things, and Beer, which is self-explanatory. You get discounts (or free beer) at beer festivals and off CAMRA publications, which means that in net terms, CAMRA membership can actually be free.

Your local branch should write to you after you join with information about the branch, and details of branch activities are published in the back of What's Brewing. So you may fancy going along to the odd social, maybe as an excuse to visit a local pub you don't usually visit. Of course, if you want to become an active branch member, and help out with local campaigning and beer festivals, that's great. But it's not compulsory, certainly not to start with.

sounds a bit strident and political) - but I can't find it anywhere

Have a look at . Better still, have a look at to find your local branch and turn up at one of their meetings.

CAMRA has lots of policies but I don't recall a manifesto.

"Manifesto" does sound a bit revolutionary, doesn't it? Foreign too, positively Continental. I wonder if it's like a ship's manifest but set to music.

Following on from Steven Pampling's message. . .

"Ever present" Eh?

IMHO there is no such thing as a proper pub with no-necks on the door.

*Bars* and *clubs* perhaps but definitely not a *pub*. A pub has the social mechanisms for managing unacceptable behaviour - for example I often go to pubs where there is "no swearing" - but there are no notices or book of rules - The _customers_ point out to transgressors, in a gentlemanly fashion, the disfavour with which their actions (sometimes unwittingly, sometimes as push-the-boundries-oafishness) are viewed "by the landlord".

This works well when there are staff being bullied (You never rang the bell - It's the law you have to serve to ... and so on) when customers will exert the minimum necessary pressure on the undiplomatic to pipe-down or push-off.

Word soon gets around where there's 100% solid support from the customers for the civilised way of doing things. Deep in here is the idea that when the person in charge asks you to desist or leave that's it! "Please" (as in "Please leave") isn't an invitation to discuss the matter but 'We'd rather you left now - that's how it is - have a nice day... somewhere else - Just look round to see what sort of minority you're in.'

For those of you reading this for whom this concept is alien, try going to pups where people talk to strangers - and practice talking to new people in pubs yourself.

Thanks all for taking an interest but I think my question about the manifesto has been neglected. What does camra really officially believe and propose? If it doesn't put it into words I can't help thinking that it exists just as a social club for people who like RA. Sorry if this sounds a bit critical and impudent (esp. coming from a whippersnapper).

I was only thinking of a day trip to London - finanaces and imminent A level results are inhibiting - at least I'm looking at a London university place so future GBBFs are a better prospect for volunteering.

TJ

Following on from Tim Jones's message. . .

Yes it does a bit. Whippersnappers tend to see th CAMRA campaigns for real ale, real pubs and consumer rights. We are an independent, voluntary organisation with 80,000 members and have been described as the most successful consumer group in Europe. CAMRA promotes good-quality real ale and pubs, as well as acting as the consumer's champion in relation to the UK and European beer and drinks industry. We aim to:

1. Protect and improve consumer rights 2. Promote quality, choice and value for money 3. Support the public house as a focus of community life 4. Campaign for greater appreciation of traditional beers, ciders and perries as part of our national heritage and culture 5. Seek improvements in all licensed premises and throughout the brewing industry

Now if that isn't "putting it in words", perhaps you should go back to snapping whips.

Thanks for visiting.

Peter Fox wrote: []

Whilst I laud any and all attempts to retain proper beer, I feel CAMRA haven't had much real influence on the mergers/closures of the last decade (with the possible exception of W&D v. Marstons).

For me, the organisation was a bit off-message with it's support for

24hr drinking (is that real ale that is being drunk late into the night: probably not).

CAMRA

Is there really nothing about "heritage interiors?"

Following on from Marcus Red's message. . .

I can assure you that round here there was (illegally), and is plenty still.

For those of us who don't get to pubs before 10pm we ended up drinking after hours. The good country pubs didn't have a problem but it feels really weird being asked to leave a pub at 11 in a town.

The issue was not 'open 24/7' but having the flexibility to open at hours to suit the customers - ie more consumer choice and not an arbitrary closing time. [Perhaps you don't recall that it was illegal to serve beer after 2:30pm on a Sunday not so long ago.... ...Last Sunday after a hot afternoon dancing in the park I was able to enjoy RA into the evening.]

There are serious issues for publicans having to cater for dribs and drabs and a few later and later merchants; and 'bad neighbour' problems that shouldn't be overlooked. Also the new law can't 'let go' of 80 years of draconian licensing rules, but I haven't yet come across cases of snotty enforcement that I was fully expecting.

CAMRA has a "policy document", which details its core campaigning issues, but it is not AFAIK available for public consumption.

If you look at the CAMRA website, there will be details of current/ongoing national campaigns, such as Full Pint, National Pubs Week, Mild Week, Light & Dark Bitters, etc.

Loads more campaigning takes place at a branch level - most often in the form of writing letters to the council/local press to protest against planning applications, where someone wants to turn that "classic old boozer" (read: run-down shithole) into a McDonalds/block of executive apartments/private residence. Things like that. Such campaigning has saved a good number of pubs - though many, many more have been lost...

I'd guess it's something like about 10% of members who get actively involved in campaigning, whether at branch or national level. The rest are in it for the social activities but all members are valuable to the organisation since it relies on money received from subscriptions and merchandise sales to fund its campaigning activities.

Besides, CAMRA /does/ put its policies into words, in the form of promotions such as National Pubs Week, which got pretty good national press coverage this year.

And if you don't think CAMRA does enough campaigning, why not get involved yourself and see if you can do something about it.

I don't think you've said anything especially controversial - the CAMRA membership doesn't have the most flattering public profile, and the negative connotations of being a CAMRA member are largely self-inflicted by that fairly significant portion of the membership that seems intent on adhering to the stereotype image. CAMRA HQ have tried to counter this image with recent marketing campaigns, but I'm not convinced they've made a great impact.

d.

Might be different out in the boonies, but unfortunately most cities do indeed have problems with yobs at the door. Worse still some of the yobs are on the staff.

Sadly in most cities the managers tend to use no-necks in lieu of standing on the door all night themselves.

There's a few like that in the rougher districts of Coventry. Although I'd label the mechanism "anti-social"

[Snip]

CAMRA has two "policy documents" Internal Policy and External Policy. It also has the Memoranda and Articles of Association that guide general behaviour. Copies are available. Can't recall whether the general public qualify for availability. Not a riveting read though - really weak plot. :-)

Well, I think that's exactly the issue. Once pubs shut at 11, you basically can't drink proper beer any more. There might be hotel bars, clubs and other establishments that will let you drink later, but it's somewhat a rarity to find real beer. Since my time in the UK is limited now, I find the new arrangements often very confusing, and other industries seem not to have adapted (we were out in Oxford at Christmas, nice pubs in the City Centre were open to midnight, but the Cowley Road curry houses still shut at

11:30...oops)