Real Ale Champ 2 :~) LocAle & Steve Westby

We were invited to join in the scheme which we support in principle but it became apparent that the 20 mile radius would have an effect on our rural breweries.One in particular cannot be considered for the Locale scheme in a highly populated area because it's just over 20 miles from Nottingham and Leicester. This brewery had been pioneering a similar scheme for many years too! We support the scheme for a 30 mile radius which in any case seems to be the generally accepted distance for produce to be considered local.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:10:37 +0100, MikeMcG wrote (in message ):

He obviously couldn't resist the temptation to use an inane wordplay for the name.

Before anyone says it's just a bit of fun: it's not for me, it hurts my brain.

it's not so much "it's a bit of fun", I just happen to think it's an OK name & one that if used as a logo on pumpclips, etc, something might stick in people's mind when ordering beer.

& I think 30 miles is fine, maybe up to 50? cheers MikeMcG

My opinion is that 30 miles should cover urban areas, with possibly 40 - 50 for rural areas. Except for Yorkshire, where you could reduce it to 10 miles and still get a surfeit of decent micros!!!

Speaking as an ex-beer agent, has anyone considered the knock on effects of this initiative on the beer agency side of the industry? Not to mention the small breweries from around the country who wouldn't survive without being able to sell their products in places far away from their place of origin. And what about beer festivals? There was a time not so long ago when Camra's beer festival scrutineers had a downer on festivals selling beer from local breweries.

Just my 2p worth

it's tricky - how many micros are based in a rural area, but have an urban area within 30/50miles, or vice versa?

I've found it very odd when I've been to CAMRA fests & not been able to find at least a couple of beers available from all of the local brewers (OK I'm a brewer! but as a drinker too). I think it should be the first thing a fest should have (don't get me started on Belgian beers at UK fests).

On the beer-agency front, I don't know - I hope the good ones remain, my guess is that this move to promote local ale won't change the fact that many drinkers & landlords still want something new all of the time & often from outside of their area. MikeMcG

I'd have thought that the beer festival needs to appeal primarily to the people in the area; theses drinkers would be well-versed in the local ales, and would be attracted by rarer and more distant offerings; if you as a visitor to a beer festival want the local beer I suggest asking the locals who could point you to a few pubs in the area.

For me it depends what the local situation is, (but I'd still like to see fests support good local beer first) I'm guessing you live in an area where you regularly see quality local-brewed beer on sale in local pubs? - until very recently, I didn't - I honestly couldn't direct anyone to a pub that I could guarantee having a local beer apart from those of the nearby regional (fine, but not going to blow socks off).

The situation happily seems to be changing for the better - though not in most chain pubs (JDW excepted) & not in regional brewers' pubs.

I don't think that fests have a duty to support local brewers regardless of quality, obviously, but in my experience, some of those who go to fests (excluding CAMRA stalwarts, tickers & other beerlovers) often don't know there *is* any local beer & are pleasantly surprised when it's presented to them; & if it's a big fest, a fair few have travelled to it & IMO they expect & deserve to be shown the best of local stuff available.

Festivals obviously need to cover costs (& make money for CAMRA HQ?) & need to be enticing to all visitors, but I don't see that as incompatible with having a commitment to supporting good local brewers

- & happily it seems most fests broadly seem to run on this principle anyway. I like fests that have a really well-thought-out combination of decent brews from near & far, big & small breweries, light & dark, sweet & bitter, low abv & strong, etc, etc. cheers MikeMcG

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:45:19 +0100, MikeMcG wrote (in message ):

It wasn't personal - I described the charlatanry known as "reiki" as bullshit.

The up to 30 mile guidelines come from the sustainable communities act and are GUIDELINES. The concept it to encourage a single beer to be locally sourced. A very laudable initiative.

Brett

hmmm - directed personally towards someone who's decided to make that part of their living . . . yeah, not personal . . .

reiki, etc is part of a set of beliefs, which don't perhaps have a scientific basis - do you use the same standards & terms when you meet a priest or rabbi? MikeMcG

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:56 +0100, MikeMcG wrote (in message ):

yes, pretty much but only when they start it. On the whole I steer clear of all kinds of god-botherers and irrationalists.

(hmmm? so is Tim a pseudonym for John?) oh well, anyway - that is part of the point, no-one did start anything! Chris had a link to a website tagged onto the end of her post - hardly reiki-bothering? MikeMcG

There seems a general acceptance of 30 miles - for example the Ludlow local market uses it, SIBA does and many other organisations. If a landlord wants to put on a beer brewed just round the corner of course he should. That's truly local. What's been happening is that brewers a little further afield who were selling a large part of their output in the cities are finding it substantially more difficult to sell beer; the scheme isn't moving drinkers from Foster's to local beer but placing some micros at a disadvantage to others.

That misunderstands the original concept of LocAle, which was a joint campaign between Nottingham CAMRA and Nottinghamshire Campaign for Better Transport and at its roots it was an environmental campaign. So 'beer miles' was a key element of deciding the rules, not just stuffing as many breweries as possible into a list and declaring them local.

I recognise one excellent East Midlands brewery is balanced on the perimeter if it is 20 miles. But that brewery physically moved recently - the wrong way alas. What if it had moved to Bury St Edmonds? Would we have to ponder a

130 mile rule? Also the brewery is now slap bang in the middle of the Grantham CAMRA area, so should not that CAMRA group be supporting the brewery and via a Grantham LocAle campaign would be splendid. Massaging the LocAle rules of an adjacent CAMRA area just so that brewery can be included is very questionable.

David Chair - Nottinghamshire Campaign for Better Transport

pioneering the idea of locally brewed ales for years-it had "local" crowns for pump clips and Steve was well aware of this.The fact is that most bodies have settled for the 30 mile rule-indeed the Sustainability act realised this when drafted.The rumour is that Nottingham branch went for a 20 mile limit to exclude Burton on Trent.

You say we can't massage the LocAle rules to accommodate one brewer-the word is that the 20 miles was massaged to exclude a large brewing concern in Burton on Trent.

I wonder why Tim/John bothered to follow the link anyway ...