Tipping at the bar

But efficient countries know that putting part of the payment in the hands of the person who experiences the service is the best way to motivate people to serve well.

Dav Vandenbroucke davanden at cox dot net

I thought Tipping was a small city in China...

;)

Scott

Dav Vandenbroucke wrote:

But in my experience, most tippees must share their tips with their colleagues, so above-average service is not really rewarded.

I tip 15-20% but intensely dislike the practice. I'd rather live in a civilized country.

vince norris

But they still make more if service is better. I don't see how this changes anything. It just gives more people a stake in good service.

I don't see what civilization has to do with it. The staff wouldn't get paid any better. It would just come from one source. The customer wouldn't pay any more or less, on average. It would just be in one bill, with no opportunity to vote with your wallet.

Dav Vandenbroucke davanden at cox dot net

I was referring to The Submarine Captain's remark, above.

Tipping is symbolic of a superior-inferior (master-servant) relationship. Note that you would not tip your neurosurgeon, or your architect, or your Senator, or the conductor of the New York Philharmonicafter a concert. If you tried, those folks would be insulted, because you've implied they are socially your inferior.

vince norris

They share a percentage with the people that support them (usually just the bussers/dishwashers/wine stewards/water guys). They don't pool all their tips between waitrons.

-sw

And yet, if you polled waitrons and barkeeps, I'd bet you a pint of BEER (ob. beer) that they would overwhelmingly prefer the current system of sub-minimum wage + percentage-of-tab tips to the only alternative: minimum wage + nominal tips.

Neither The Submarine Captain nor I was presenting that choice.

If we're making up fictitious choices, how about offering the wait staff, collectively, 50% of the profits?

vince norris

You're mistaken. I know several places where they do.

vince norris

Waiters, bartenders, etc., _are_ servants. The customers are the people with the money, and their jobs are to serve them. But it's a strictly commercial relationship. When the bartender clocks out and goes to a restaurant for dinner, then the shoe is on the other foot. I don't see why that's bad.

Dav Vandenbroucke davanden at cox dot net

Then neither you nor Laurent were presenting realistic choices.

Fictitious? What country do you live in? I know Laurent is in Switzerland, and I won't condescend to tell the Swiss how to conduct their business, but I thought "psu" was in one of the original 13 colonies on this side of the pond. Until you pull off your next revolution, the only alternative would be an unsatisfactory wage and paltry tips. My (realistic) point is that good waitrons and bartenders make far more under the current system than they possibly could under any (realistic) set-wage system without (or with drastically lower) tips.

If the wait staff, collectively, buys into ownership of the bar then the wait staff, collectively, can distribute the profits however they want. I'm all for it.

Sorry - I was thinking restaurants mostly. Some bars - those with more than one tender behind the counter, yes.

-sw

I meant restaurants, ones I patronize here in central PA.

I don't know about bars. I'm not a teetotaler, but I rarely go to bars. Haven't been in one in years.

vince norris

Well, then - you're mistaken. I've worked in several restaurants in Pittsburgh back in the 80's (Kline's, Eat & Park, Red Bull) and we never pooled our tips, nor did any of the other waietrs mention aver having worked at such a place. We did at a Swenson's Ice Cream Parlour, though (in Sunnyvcale, CA).

I go to maybe 3 bars a year.

-sw

You know, it just might be possible that in a country as large and diverse as the US that the practices vary by region and restaurant. Just because you have individual experiences to cite to the contrary does not mean Vincent is wrong; nor do his individual examples prove you're wrong.

FWIW, I've experienced both.

-Steve

Thanks you, Steve. I thought I'd have to give Steve Wertz a lecture on the elementary principles of inductive logic, but you took care of the matter for me.

vince norris

Which is why I cited the 3 Pennsylvania restaurants that I have worked at. Whishc happens to be the same area where he lives.

So where were you when I accused him of being wrong the first time?

-sw

You're welcome.

Considering I've worked at restaurants in your area, and you haven't, then maybe your "inductive logic" has no basis and is strictly a WAG.

-sw