Starbucks Workers Join IWW

No, the question was "Why would any company want their employees following organized crime thugs?"

On its face, this has nothing at all to do with unionizing.

In the context, it is obvious that WmJames was referring to unions as "organized crime thugs". This usage of context to infer meanings is usually mastered by 6th grade. It is never too late to take a class in remedial reading.

My, My, My, but did the IQ of this thread ever drop quickly.

But within the juvenile mudslinging there are a few important points being brought out:

1. If I decide that my best interests are served by joining a union how do I make sure I am not joining a corrupt union that will simply steal my dues?

1. Why are freedom loving capitalists so against unions? Couldn't have anything to do with higher wages and improved benifits eating into profits?

2. Why do freedom loving capitalists NOT rise up against cartels and monoplies that distort the "natural" operation of the free market? Couldn't have anything to do with artifically driving prices and profits up?

I would answer that plain old greed is the answer to 2 and 3. And the answer to 1 is a bit of due diligence.

A new question: are there situations where a monoply makes sense for the average citizen (I'll puke the next time someone refers to me as a "consumer")?

Refuse to participate in dues checkoff. And also refuse to sign any contract which requires you to honor a picket line. Have you ever been in on union negotiation when a union first gets into a company? If not, ask someone who has. The FIRST thing on the table in dues check off. They want that before they discuss anything else. Wanna guess why? And every union contract with the members gives them the authority to fine you for crosing a picket line.

No one cares if you join a club. People like me object to government telling people they have to do business with the union. If I hire someone to do something, that's an agreement between be and the person to whom I and trading my money for the labor. If he wants to join a labor union, the boy scouts, the NAACP or the KKK, that's his business, not mine. If He sends a representitive to me to negotiate a contract, I reserve the right to tell them to take a hike, and to tell hiom to take a hike if he doesn't do the work. If he stands in frnt of the business carrying a silly sign instead of showing up for work, I reserve the right to cease buying labor from him and hire someone willing to show up.

Why do the union nuts think it's ok for one party in the trade to terminate the relationship at aly time for whetever reason he sees fit but not the other? If the employee can quit whenever he wants, whay shouldn't the eployer have the same right?

Supply and demand. If you can get people to cut the labor supply to drive the price up, fine! Go for it! Just don't demand that government participate by telling the people they can't take the jobs the strikers abandoned to walkthe picket lines. And don't block the drive and otherwise illegally attempt to keep those willing to work for a living from going to work.

Just don't sell your rights to criminals. It's that simple. If your labor has value, you don't need a union to get the best price. You only need a union if you are overpaid.

Depends on how you define it. There are few examples of where monopolies breaking up didn't result in higher prices. The reason is apparently simple efficency. The monpolies got that way by heavy streamlining, cost cutting and underpricing all the competetion. Imagine Walmart, for example, taking over all the retail housewares business. They would have to do that by underpricing everyone else even more than they already do. They do that by buying in huge bulk amounts that small businesses can't. If they because a monopoly, that effect would be even greater. All the wholesalers would only have one customer to deal with making their operations more efficient as well.

Not that monopolies are good, it's beste toi have competetion for a lot of reasons. But prices aren't the issue. For the consumer, monopolies are better at keeping the prices down.

William R. James

Interesting that you are all for the government protecting those willing to work for less but don't want any government protections for those wishing to collectively bargain. There must be balance in our system of law or there is not law but legalized anarchy by those controlling the law. That is the essence of capitalism in America today. Slowly but surely business is strangling the good out of America to profit by it. When major cartels control the costs of labor, labor will work for poverty wages because that is all that is available. I suspect you find yourself in what you believe is some safe haven from this legalized anarchy. Only time will tell, but I doubt it. If not you, then your children or grandchildren will pay the price for this short term frenzy of greed.

I would like to remind everyone, that we do not have an economy to be served by the people, but rather we have an economy to serve the people. People come first. People are more important than money, machines, technology and quarterly returns.

The idea of people competing against one another for lower wages, or less health care is extremely foolish.

This type of competition has been tried before, and it always results in failure. When left unchecked, it often results in wars. Greater competition between nations led to WWI, WWII and almost to WWIII.

It is a foolish notion to suggest people should compete for a limited amount of goods instead of sharing what was available and working together with good morals to create more.

Life is not a race or competitive struggle. People are not animals who must compete against each other for everything from money, jobs and women. Books that teach this should be thrown in the garbage can and banned from all school systems in America as being "anti-social".

Civilized people use common sense and forgiveness to solve problems. Civilized people know that cooperation creates far more happiness for everyone and reduces social problems dramatically.

Countries who have seen too much war already, like Germany and Japan, should put all their funding in the American democratic party. The Republican party's platform is one that is heading towards war.

Whichever nations want to see a calmer, more peaceful America, and a more peaceful world, should support Kerry and the democrats 100%.

The stripping of American worker benefits and shipping of good American jobs overseas is destabilizing America to a point which will not benefit other nations of the world. It is creating a dangerous, unstable environment in a nation that has 30,000 nuclear warheads.

Vote Democrat for a return of jobs to America

Good Social programs needed in America

What color is the sky on *your* planet?

snipped-for-privacy@FreshCoffee.biz

Well said.

William R. James

Huh. Sounds like you work for Disney.....people want to work there, but without a decent union, the working conditions can be horrible.....I'm referring to WDW, in particular.

Nope. Good company. Good conditions.

WRONG. GOD comes first. And here in America GOD is MONEY.

That is our reality. Wouldn't the dream of "people first" be something to realize? Probably not in our lifetime.

Which people? The self-described "activists" who think they have some right to impose their wishes upon everyone else?

ALL people Stan. Even you. Imagine a world where people were ALWAYS more important than money. Hard to imagine and probably never attainable, but a nice thought. Ever have a nice thought about mankind Stan?

No, that's socialism = Communism.

Americans will never be free until the statist American state has been eradicated.

Those who love freedom vote Libertarian.

Right on brother. Anyone who talks about society, or "the people" are traitors to the constitution and enemies of Liberty.

Money is the only true GOD. Capitalism the only valid Religion.

Those who love Liberty vote Libertarian.

message

I don't waste my time imagining silly Utopias and trying to design societies around them. I'm more interested in reality, and societies that work within those constraints...

Have you ever seen the phrase "We the people"?