A possible future for Puerh

Recently, Mike Petro has dug up evidence that, over the last ten years or so, scientists have been devoting serious attention to Puerh. These scientists seem to be mainly Chinese, but some are Japanese. Some are trying to determine what health benefits may be attributable to Puerh. Some, and these are the ones I find interesting, are trying to figure out exactly what goes on chemically and microbially in the manufacture and aging of good Puerh.

There's a parallel here with the explosion of science and engineering over the last few decades in the manufacture of another microbially fermented beverage: wine.

In what follows, when I say "Puerh", I really mean "hei cha", a more general term meaning a tea subjected to microbial fermentation and (almost always) aging.

Let's assume that the current boom in the popularity of Puerh isn't just a transitory fad. Couple that with the extremely informal microbial technology that producers now wield, as well as the fact that trained scientists are now (paid to be) figuring out the details, and a possible future for Puerh becomes visible.

Relatively high-tech industrial methods are going to be used to produce teas related to what we know as Puerhs, teas that a purist might not recognize as true Puerhs. Let's call them "Puerh analogues" (PEAs.)

I think PEAs won't be created initially to get a cheaper and faster ripe PEA, for the current technology seems to be pretty cheap and fast. (Here I'm talking about the technology for artificially aged, "dark" or "ripe" Puerh, a technology dating back to the seventies.)

I bet the engineers will be aiming for a more reliable - and quicker - way to get the flavor and aroma of a green Puerh.

I suspect that this experimentation will, at least initially, avoid using leaf from the most prestigious tea mountains in Yunnan, for the high end of the market will demand the "real thing" for a long time. The same logic probably applies to Liubao and Liu An. But I think it'll be interesting to taste heichas from outside Xishuangbanna, Liu An, and a couple of other canonical areas.

Perhaps it won't be too long before, either from traditional methods applied to nontraditional sources of leaf, or from novel manufacturing methods, PEAs become available with aromas and tastes previously unknown. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing can't be known now, I suppose.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin
Loading thread data ...

I decided to use the space of this topic opened by Lew for pointing to a question related to the name of one of these PEAs. As many of you know, Chinese characters might have different readings. The character used for the number six in Mandarin is usually read "liu". Apart this standard and modern reading, it can also be read "lu", considered a more "ancient" reading. This problem does not exist in Cantonese where the reading if six is always"luk", showing clearly the preservation of this character's ancient pronunciation with a stopped final. In the official list of the prefectures of Anhui province, the reading (Pinyin) of the name of the prefecture famous for the production of one of these PEA is "Lu'an". As it often happens with these multi-pronunciation characters, most of Chinese people do not know this fact and pronunce it "Liu'an". Of course I will agree that clearness in communication is more important than philological exactness, but at least Lu'an seems to be the official naming decided by the Chinese government.

Reply to
Livio Zanini

Why doesn't this come under the heading Basic Botanical research? The properties of Western plants have formally been explored since the

18th century. The Chinese first published a treatise on medicinal plants 500BC. 85% of pharmeceuticals come from plant research. You want to pay for your trip around the world collect plant samples like Darwin. He died rich from what he collected and not what he wrote. I know someone who makes a buck by selling to a university. My limited interest in Puerh is Chinese Traditional Medicine. I haven't see any Patents and I would suspect to find Puerh formulas there first. My review of the limited English research materials is mainly PHD studies for Doctorate. The research in camillia sinensis is staggering and AFAIK no derivatives except some concentrate. We're familiar with microbes in yeast and yogurt etc. So a Puerh beer or cheese would be interesting. The research might mean a new Puerh penicillin but the pots of gold are few and far between. I don't see the economics even including futures of a 50 year old harvest. You're better off using tobacco enzymes and producing a magical chew in 6 months. Enjoy your tea and if you live longer or don't get cancer then it didn't cost you anything. You can learn more from epidemiological studies than laboratory analysis. As pharmeceutical companies sadly know most promising drugs don't do any better than the placebo when tested in a population. If someone is interested in the latest Puerh research then great but don't hype it as anything but basic research.

Jim

Lewis Perin wrote in message news:...

snip...

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Can't they just stick it under a microscope and figure out what microbes are on the stuff? Even if the chinese won't tell anyone how it's made it seems like just analyzing the substance would provide lots of info.

Reply to
Falky foo

On 15 Aug 2004 12:18:15 -0400, Lewis Perin quoth:

No way, it's the Real Deal - good stuff. :)

bkr

Reply to
Beaker

They *are* figuring out what microbes are on the stuff. And they're publishing scholarly papers, too.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

Of course it's good stuff, but even the best stuff can become unpopular.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

Lew is right, "they" are, and have been, figuring it out and documenting it in classic scientific style. The lack of understanding is by "us" not "them". I have found an abundance of Chinese research unfortunately I do not read or speak Chinese and they have no motivation to publish their papers in English. Finding these texts, and getting them translated, has been a project I have been working on for a while. I have had a lot of help from Len, Livio, and others. I will soon post what I have learned. Suffice it to say that there are "beasties" in puer, most notably aspergillus niger which is a yeast like fungi frequently used in industrial food processing, and they do affect quality. While this fungi naturally occurs in puer it is also intentionally introduced in some modern processing methods.

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

formatting link
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Reply to
Mike Petro

A common soil fungus found all over the world causing a deleterious problem for US crops like tobacco,onion,peanut. Any given tea sample would probably show some of this. Another reason to boil water because it is infectious to humans. A nice summary of Puerh and AE at

formatting link
. I pursued TCM and found "black tea fungus" drink produced by a Chinese pharmeceutical
formatting link
even though no mention of mold only 'microzyme' but health benefits similar to puerh. It is a fermentation agent approved by the ATF and utilized in industrial organic chemistry for making pectin. I'm not smart. I use Google.

Jim

Reply to
Space Cowboy

With many thanks to Kuri, Austin, Wang, Len, Livio, WS, and others for their help with translations and referrals, I have posted a summary of Puer Microbe activity at

formatting link
. I have leaned not to trust any single source regarding Puer, no matter how knowledgeable they are, because there is so much misinformation floating about. The information that I have posted has been corroborated from several different sources so I trust that it is accurate. There is a lot more that I have read or have been told, much of which I only got from one source so I am awaiting independent confirmation before I post it.

Here is a summary of what I have learned, see my webpage for full details.:

Puer is indeed a living thing! Many different microbes are active during the manufacturing process and the subsequent storage of the puer cakes. Some of these microbes have very short lives and are only present during certain phases of the manufacturing process, while others are predominate throughout the entire life of the tea if properly stored. It is these microbes that are believed to be responsible for the many health claims associated with Puer. Among the more prevalent microbes are Aspergillus Niger, Saccharomyces, Penicillium, Rhizopus, and Aspergillus Glaucus. All of these have different effects on the quality of the Puer. A skillful Tea Master knows how to provide conditions that encourage the growth of desirable microbes in the proper proportions.

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

formatting link
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Reply to
Mike Petro

Mike,

Only recently I have stumbled on you Pu-Erh site and wanted to thank you for maintaining such a good resource. I man I know who owns the only traditional Chinese Teahouse in the US (Imperial Teahouse in SF, CA) told me once that once you graduated to pu-erhs, there is no comeback. Can you describe a path one may take to such a graduation? As of now I had several pu-erhs and they all had that "raw earth" smell in them that does not please, me and they all lack the finesse of greens, richness in smell of oolongs and taste in blacks (hong cha). But the ones I tasted were cheap varieties because I do not want to spend money on something that I have no knowledge of. Any guidance? At the very least can you recommend certain pu-erhs at certain places for certain prices?

Respectfully,

Alex.

Reply to
Alex Chaihorsky

Hi Alex,

My schedule today prohibits me from devoting the time that this question deserves. Look for a decent reply in a day or two.

Mike

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 03:24:46 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky" cast caution to the wind and posted:

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

formatting link
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Reply to
Mike Petro

Alex,

Forgive me for barging in univited like this. A short suggestion while we're waiting for Mike's longer one:

Call David Hoffman (Silk Road Teas) at (415) 488-9017. Address is Post Office box 287, Lagunitas, CA 94938. David has a large inventory of Pu-erh at a wide variety of prices. He is knowledgable, stores his tea's well, and will talk with you about different ones. For a reasonable amount of money you can come away with a fair assortment. That's my advice. I think he stands somewhat above the confused and confusing world of Pu-erh hype. The Dai Nationaliy Green Pu-erh I got from him is extraordinary. I've liked nearly all of what I've gotten from him.

Best, Michael

Mike snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com/2/04

07: snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

Reply to
Michael Plant

Thanks, Mike, thanks, Michael.

Alex.

Reply to
Alex Chaihorsky

Ok Alex, I have more time today.

First, I have to wholeheartedly agree with Michael about David Hoffman, he is an excellent place to start. As you can imagine I also agree with Roy about never going back, but I don't agree that he is the "only" authentic traditional Chinese Teahouse as there are others. Actually Roy is quite knowledgeable and should be able to guide you to some exceptional examples as well.

My recommendation would be to start off with some high quality 5 year old black puerhs. Expect to pay $20 - $40 for a 357g cake, although you can probably find smaller quantities at a tea shop. Stay away from the loose puerh until you learn to recognize it well as it is often adulterated. I gather from some of your other posts that you are familiar with gongfu style of brewing, even so you may want to get Roy's folks to show you how to best apply the method to puerh, as this is truly the best way to experience it.

Green puerh is much more of an acquired taste unless you can afford, and find, some genuine antique puerh. Younger green puer is much more particular about brewing methods and can easily yield a very astringent cup if mishandled. Typically people will get hooked on black puerh first and then graduate to green puerh.

All of that being said, if the "raw earth" smell is particularly displeasing to you this very well may not be your cup of tea, so to speak, as that is a trademark of many puerhs.

Hope this helps,

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

formatting link
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Reply to
Mike Petro

Thank you very much. I will follow your advice and contact David (I already left the message on his machine). The smell that I call "raw earth" does not please me, at least for now, as it has "fishy" tones that feel a bit rude to me. Unfortunately I do not live in SF, but in Reno, so its not that I can drop by Roy's any time I feel like :( I have been using gongfu for some years now, so if you would ever find time to elaborate on gongfu as it applies to puerhs, I think I will be able to figure it out. Again, thank you very much for your help.

Alex.

Reply to
Alex Chaihorsky

There is another Teahouse and online shop called

formatting link
 that I have found to be a reputable source. Their teahouse is new but has received a lot of good press. Through several conversations with them I have found them to be extremely knowledgeable. One of the owners is actually a certified Chinese Teamaster. I highly recommend them. They are also less pricey than Roy ;-) David is an excellent source but offers no online presence so you pretty much have to take his rather good advice over the telephone and on the spot.

I am not affiliated with either of them, just impressed...

I do not profess to be an a gongfu master so I can only share how I have learned to do it. Drop me an email and we can take the gongfu thing offline, I am not ready to discuss/debate it publicly at the moment....

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

formatting link
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Reply to
Mike Petro

Thanks, ending you an e-mail right away.

Alex.

Reply to
Alex Chaihorsky

Mike snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com/3/04

23: snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

Mike and Alex and all,

I'd be inclined to say that "raw earth" -- perhaps we should say "earths" since there are so many variants on this theme from barnyard to fresh loam

-- is more associated with "cooked" pu-erh than green. Further, adding to what Mike said, while young green pu-erhs can be tempermental about brewing method, they are not difficult to handle. Quality varies wildly. One made carefully of good leaf should show complexity with a bit of -- dare I say, "must"? -- and lots of flower and maybe some fruit. They say its the middle aged ones you need to be really careful of since Pu-erh goes through a harsh adolescent period.

Recently I had a pu-erh purported to be from 1972, but I doubt that, which tasted of raw earth and little else. Not a bad tea, but I had guessed it was cooked. If it were green, it was most likely wet stored.

All this speculation from nothing but my meager experience. I leave the rest for the serious and the scientists.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

Thanks, Michael, I think I start to get the picture. Looking at all the info about puerhs that I recently started to accumulate, the puerhs must be subject to dramatic variations due to the simple fact that fermentation is a process that can take many paths. And unless the aging is done in a very controlled environment, the magnitude of variety could be enormous. That is why cheeses are stored in caves with constant temperatures and humidifies. Wine is less sensitive and mostly require the control of the temperature because it is isolated from the air, and puerhs are not. With the speed of wealth accumulation in China, I guess the finer and finer attention will be paid to tea and puerhs will get a lot of that attention increase. As of now, the crop year is not yet a big thing, but I predict that it will be. Chinese are crazy (sadly, if you ask me) about things status and tea will become a very big status symbol in a very short time. I think 5-10 years from now we will laugh at the aged puerh prices that we pay today. Since it is really very easy to study the aging process of puerh by monitoring the gasses that the cakes leak, I think that it would be interesting to have 5-10 years experiment with many green and black puerhs being aged in different temperatures and humidity's. May be a series of "maps" or "paths" of aging can be developed when the tea will be actively aged by manipulating the environment of its aging.

Alex.

Reply to
Alex Chaihorsky

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.