Loose green puerh and pressed teas that are not puerh.

true a single 9mm will not hurt it. BUT If you pass trough Robbinsdale mn stop at the gun range. we will turn 12 Full autos loose on it,and reduce it to CTC!

tom

Hi again Sasha,

I have seen a lot of black and green tea bricks that are NOT puer. Some of them have Russian writing on them (thought you might appreciate that fact). Usually they have an ornate design on one side and the other side is scored to make it easier to break into portions. It is my understanding that these are an ancient form of shipping tea and they were even used as currency at one time. Some I have seen were little more than compressed fannings while others were broken leaf, very few that I have seen have been whole leaf.

See:

88

Or for a really nice history see

or

Now as far as loose Green Puer goes, I am really confused about this one and have not been able to get solid answers from anyone credible yet. The thing that really bothers me is that I so seldom see it. There has to be a reason why you dont see it more and I really have a need to know this reason. The Chinese are a very enterprising people, if there was money to be made they would be tapping into it, I would think. So why arent they?

Post fermentation, some would argue also oxidation , contribute to making a pu'er a pu'er. However, during processing there are various microbes in play with pu'er that may not be present during the processeing of other "black post fermented" teas. Hence not all post-fermented teas are necesarly pu'er.

Mike

Mike Petro

"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

Mike -

1. The green tea with Russian letters is mostly Georgian green tea that was drunk in USSR almost exclusively in Central Asia. That was a substitute for a Chinese variety and it was, as I remember it - quite plain. That tea had nothing to do with traditional Chinese varieties, just a rude substitute for a popular product. However recently on a Russian tea forum a guy from Rostov-on-Don posted a message about an old-time green tea brick that he bough there and was of soviet production and close to 20 years old. He said that to his surprise the brick has a very puery taste and smell. I guess one cannot keep these pesky microbes off the stuff! And how we call pressed green old tea that smells like puerh and taste like one? Right - puerh! My point - it may not be possible to make a non-puerh compressed green tea! It may take longer to mature, though... I am thinking of asking him to buy some bricks for me just out of curiosity. tell me if you want one too.

The really interesting historical detail is that during Chinese-Russian Stalin-Mao love story China was trying very hard to pay for enormous stream of goods, armaments, technology and military aid that was sent its way. And tea would be such a natural way to include into that list of payback products, especially since Russia is very much a tea-drinking country. But it was never done - there were no Chinese tea in Russia in 1950-ies. while I and my knickerbockered buddies in kindergartens were singing "Chinese and Russian are brothers forever! Our nations are marching forward!" as a daily routine. I have no explanation for that!

1. All of your links point to black tea bricks, (I own quite a number) and its mostly fannings. The green beast Qing Chuan Zhuan I own is very large-leafed and almost 10% twigs, some of them as thick as 2 mm in diameter! Also the black fanning bricks are very hard but if broken breaks in a brittle way, like, say, ceramic roof tiles. The green one is completely different - its like a tank armor - hard and viscous, not brittle at all. Completely different mechanically. I am thinking of buying another one and taking it to the range actually. My guess - a .45 from Colt 1911 will shatter it but won't penetrate cleanly. I am a geologist and breaking pieces off hard rocks is what I do. There is a famous rock - nephrite (Jade, axstone) that is microscopically consists of long molecules of iron-magnesium silicate interweaved into a huge fishing line maze and that is capable of transfiguring your rock pick into a steel ball before you manage to break off a piece. But I was able to break off pieces of it. But with this green tea brick I had to use a saw! It would separate, smash, bend, pulverize, but it would not yield a decent piece of itself for my brewpot. Amazing!

1. Loose puerh - same thing here - its an enigma or me. Thanks for your links.

Thanks again for you info and time.

Sasha.

The same guy posted on adagio tea too. Interesting story. He was trying to see if it had antique value. I am not so sure about simply compressing tea leaves to make pu'er. The Vietnamese have come up with something that is close but it is generally accepted that no pu'er is made outside of Yunnan. I also have a link somewhere to tea bricks for India, I am looking for it for you. Seems they just compressed the tea for ease of shipping with no pu'er overtones.

Now, over time there may be some oxidation/fermentation type of transformation in any compressed tea, not only pu'er. Besides there are other black teas that are compressed that taste nothing like pu'er. For example Hua Zuan or Liu Bao. Since these are compressed and are definitely not pu'er I think it supports that compression alone will not do it. Take a look at these links

or or it is one of my favorite teas, it is highly compressed, it improves with age, very stemy, very dense and hard to dismantle without a saw, the stick you see is about 1.5 meters long and about 15cm in diameter and weighs 30kg, it is definitely NOT pu'er. There are many other compressed ethnic teas in China, we just don't hear about many of them here.

Let me know what this guy is asking for these bricks, I may be interested.

One of those links stocked the green bricks

Mike Petro

"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

Take a look at these links

Mike -

I did some search on the qian liang cha (the one in the huge bamboo casting) and to my surprise I found only japanese sites. Is this tea has a different name in Chinese? I think I have seen it advertizedin th US for several hundred bucks, but I am not sure. is it somewhat similar to Silk Road Dai nationality bamboo puerh?

Sasha.

I still don't know why my Liuan from Chinatown comes with a Zhong sticker. I thought that was a trademark indicating Puerh not fermented melon seed from Anhui. I'm waiting for a Paul Harvey followup. There are plenty of 'India' cakes on TaoBao. I get the impression it might be a grade or style of pu for export similar to Tibet mushroom.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote: ...bitten by beasties...

...bitten by beasties...

As you probably know, the two characters in that logo just mean China Tea. So, leaving aside the question of intellectual property ownership, the label fits.

/Lew

Hmmm, not sure how to take Paul Harvey reference. If you want my opinion, the Zhong Cha logo started as the standard logo for all of the Government Owned Factories. After the privatization of the factories several of them chose to continue to use it. It has since been reclaimed and now belongs to a single factory. While this logo was commonly associated with many puer teas over the years it is not necessarily endemic to pu'er alone. See more at

As for my reference to "India" bricks I was not referring to the "Zhong Cha" pu'er cakes made in China for Import/Export purposes but rather bricks of tea, not pu'er, made in India.

Mike

Space Cowboy wrote:

fermented

There

simply

Hi Alex,

I found the link I was looking for. It was not in India like I thought but it was the country of Georgia. Close to those Russian roots we spoke of before.

is in your tongue Alex for the English version

Also here is another Brick Tea Factory in China. These do not appear to be puer bricks either. Jim you might take note that some of them have a zhong cha logo as well.

Mike

Anytime I see steamed and fermented I think pu. Since Zhejiang borders on Anhui maybe they have a similar plant for fermented Liuan. Xiamen who I think is a business partner of China National...Export is using the Zhong emblem on their tins in general but not their paper packaging. A counter example is good enough for me. Now when I go to Chinatown I look for the Zhong emblem otherwise the chances are good enough it is from China anyway if not mentioned from Taiwan or Hong Kong.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote: ...

There is a pu'er that was made in Chongqing at one point, but I'm not sure if they are in business. You can find some shops that have a stock of it still.

I do know of a small plantation in the Guangxi province that's close to Yunnan that produces Pu'er called "7 Star Plantation" or something. Their stuff is not so good, though.

When is a pu erh tea not a pu erh tea? That is the true question. Pu-erh tea is made by using the tender leaves of large leaf tea as its based. This particular tea plant is usally reserved to make pu erh tea and will not be used to make regular green teas or oolong teas. This variety of tea has large leaves and grows high. Pu-erh tea can be picked almost all the year round. The best ones are those picked in the spring and autumn.

According to its different processing methods, Pu-erh tea can be divided into three groups: Pu-erh special tea, Pu-erh green tea and Yunnan black tea. It also can be classified into two types by its shape: Pu-erh compressed tea and loose tea. The rare exotic taste of pu-erh tea has long been a traditional favorite in China, and its widely acclaimed health benefits

Another good place to look is "Tea University" at

Greg

Greg, What you posted is a direct word for word quote from Zhang Jinkun and James Bana at

and reflects their interpretation. I disagree with parts of that interpretation. They, as also quoted by you, say that "Pu-erh tea" can be made into "Yunnan black tea" which is misleading at best. To say that "Yunnan Gold" or "Yunnan Black" teas ) belong to a group of "Pu-erh teas" is grossly inaccurate, they are NOT puerh teas even though they may indeed come from the Yunnan large leaf variety. What they call "Pu-erh green tea" ) is hardly puerh either. How, by any stretch of the imagination, can you call Jasmine Dragon Pearl, Bi Luo Chun, or Mao Feng a Pu-erh Tea?

I suspect that James is simply playing off of his sites name and really means that "Pu-erhTea.com" teas can be divided into three groups. However these three groups are not all considered Pu-erh cha. What he calls "Pu-erh special tea" is what the rest of the world would call Pu-erh cha.

You did little to explain exactly what loose green puer is or isn't, or why you so seldom see it. Is loose green puer simply the raw sun dried leaf (mao cha) that is commonly traded as a commodity (like dried tobacco leaf) and then used to make compressed green puer or further fermented to make black puer, or is it something else?

BTW, I know James Bana personally and I know for a fact the he expects to be given a footnote credit whenever his site is quoted. Besides, it is considered good etiquette to give credit to the author when quoting directly as you have done here.

Mike

[Greg] When is a pu erh tea not a pu erh tea? That is the true question. [seb] Basically, when it meets one or both of these criteria:

- When the leaves are not harvested from the "Yunnan Da Ye" race tea trees.

- When the leaves used to make compressed teas are not using the "Shai Qing Mao Cha" (sun dried leaves) as material even though they are harvested from the "Yunnan Da Ye" race tea trees.

Seb, where does "loose leaf green puerh" fit into this equation? Is loose leaf green puerh simply the Shai Qing Mao Cha you speak of that is set aside and aged, or does it go through further processing? Why dont you see it very often?

Mike

Mike,

Loose leaf green puerh fits

- it is harvested from the "Yunnan Da Ye" race tea trees.

- it is the "Shai Qing Mao Cha" (sun dried leaves), which is also name "Dian Qing" (Yunnan green tea).

The Loose green puerh is simply the Shai Qing Mao Cha, if there is a further processing then it would be the compressed step.

The Dian Qing is mainly used to make compressed tea such as tuo cha, Fang Cha, Beeng Cha...etc. or cooked loose puerh as well. But some of the very high grade leaves (very young and tender leaves) will be sold in loose form with package such as "Chun Rui", "Chun Ya"...then the rest will be done into compressed form or cooked loose puerh.

However, there are some sellers who will put some loose leaf Dian Qing (Shai Qing Mao Cha) in their shops to sell or to show to the clients since puerh is getting so popular. So you can have chance to get some but not in big quantity.

Jing

Jing, thanks for the reply. I still wonder why it is not seen very much. If loose green puer is simply Dian Qing why dont more people sell it this way. It would be a lot cheaper since less labor is involved. Do the the Chinese people see Dian Qing as "not finished"? Is it inferior somehow?

How well doesloose Dian Qing age? It would seem that it would age faster than a compressed form. If so I again wonder why it is so scarce in this loose form?

Mike

Mike Petro

"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed." Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.