Born Novevemer 16, 2005- John

Yes, another Chinese site trying to sell tea at American prices, it does appear that shipping is included so they are a bit cheaper than the domestic guys. They do take Paypal but the whole Shopping Cart is in such broken english that I am not sure I would trust it.

One announcement would have been sufficient, I prefer not to support such spammers .....

Besides they dont have any puerh anyway....

Mike

There are about 568 different kinds of Green Tea in my record, and I believe it is just a small portion of the real production, but Puer is just a different story, as I said, only Menghai Cha Chang and Xiaguan Cha Chang could produce Puer in real term. Also, one of my friend once told me that even the Menghai Cha Chang only produce very little Sheng pu that could last for a long time, they do produce a huge amount of sheng pu, but most of the products for fresh-comsume only.

I do agree that Puer is a great tea, but the supply isn't very health, maybe we should wait a while, and during the waiting period, why not put some interest in Green tea? There are too many things to try, and avilability is much better than Puer.

I am not with John, though, but consider the western purchasing power, I do agree that the price of tea is much to low in China, I am not talking about the most famous 10 (12-14, actually, according to different ranking orgnisation), some of the great stuff is only 1 pound (GBP) per 500g, and I am considering to get some of those shipped to Uk and sell it.

So the smaller factories make ... imaginary Pu'er?

/Lew

shu pu was invented by the government in late 70s and early 80s, the purpose was to make smaller plants/farms be able to produce something for the consideration of GDP, and as the government keep holding this posture, many factories would be able to produce "Puer", I think this explained the quality problem. And nowadays, Puer is very popular outside China and hence it become the red-hot spot for capital (Menghai had been taken over in 2004), plus the local government protection, god know what will happen next...

shu pu was invented by the government in late 70s and early 80s, the purpose was to make smaller plants/farms be able to produce something to contribute GDP, and as the government keep holding this posture, many factories would be able to produce "Puer", I think this explained the quality issue; And nowadays, Puer is very popular outside China and hence it become the red-hot spot for capital (Menghai

had been taken over in 2004), plus the semi-private owned China, and local government protection, God knows what will happen next...

shu pu was invented by the government in the late 70s and early 80s, the purpose was to make smaller plants/farms be able to produce something to contribute GDP, and as the government keep holding this posture, many factories would be able to produce "Puer", I think this explained the quality issue; And nowadays, Puer is very popular outside China and hence it become the red-hot spot for capital (Menghai

had been taken over in 2004), plus the semi-private owned China, and local government protection, God knows what will happen next...

This is the second time you have made this statement and I am very confused by it. I have many books in my collection that are published in China that document many famous sheng puers that are NOT made by Menghai Tea Factory or Xiaguan Tea Factory. I have samples of several of these in my own collection. Why do you say they are not *real* puerh?

I guess the first question I must ask in order to understand would be: What is your definition of real puerh? Please tell us what makes a puerh real in your opinion?

I do agree that many sheng puerhs are not suitable for aging, particularly the ones that have a high percentage of tea buds. They are sweeter and meant to be drank right away.

Evryone has their own favorite teas, while I prefer puerh the most, I also like Japanese greens particularly Shincha, other Blacks like Lui An, and even some Red teas like a good Dian Hong.

Mike

...or maybe a few years earlier

I don't see how this would explain quality problems in *sheng* pu'er made by smaller factories. Not to mention the Dai farmers who roast their own bamboo tube pu'er.

/Lew

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "holding this posture"? Are you speaking of the Government subsidizing the smaller farms and factories after they privatized the big ones?

My reocords show that the Shu Pu process was iinvented at the Yunnan Kunming tea factory in 1972, with the first production trials occurring in 1973. What is your source for the 1980s date?

Yes, Mengahi was purchased by Bowin Corporation last October and they are currently setting the market standard for high pricing and tightly controlled distribution. They are also one of the most forged teas with many fakes at the market bearing the Menghai name. The extremely high percentage of fake puerhs is particularly bothersome to those of us who must buy tea by mail.

Mike

Just rotate 90 degrees around the i axis before drinking.

--scott

[Mike] My reocords show that the Shu Pu process was iinvented at the Yunnan Kunming tea factory in 1972, with the first production trials occurring

in 1973. What is your source for the 1980s date? [NeoCathay] The culture revolution ended at 1976-77, during that 10 years, there wasn't any private factories at all, that's why I said it was the government who invented shu pu. After Deng came back to power, he made a series of policy to stimulate production, in all sectors; and not until late 80s and early 90s the government realised that the quality became a huge problem, they issued a series of policy restricting the premises for production (but hadn't been effectively implemented), but they still adapting the supply side policy (different with the economic theory, though); and with Deng's policy, from late 70s to early 80s, many new product appeared, including many kinds of shu pu (don't think this is a fact that someone need to go to library to find out, most people in China with the interest would know it, and if u could check the history of that period, u will find enough material about this).

[Mike] I guess the first question I must ask in order to understand would be:

What is your definition of real puerh? Please tell us what makes a puerh real in your opinion? [NeoCathay] If you could refer to the Gong Cha institution (贡茶制度, 貢茶制度 as BIG5 set), I think you would easily find out what did I mean by "real Puer" (opposite with poor quality stuff, not imaginary stuff). Those who interested in this aspect could refer to the 中国茶叶发展史大纲 (中國茶葉發展史大綱 for traditional character BIG5 set )，I read that book several years ago, don't have it at hand. I also recomment 中国茶叶大辞典（中國茶葉大辭典）, a very useful reference book that would give u an overall view of the whole industry, but not very acurate, as the information they were allowed to release was still limited. Also, I want to point out a fact that it was the government who is interpreting the tea standard nowadays, and the privatization process is happening now, before that, the government own both the factories and authority to explain & set standards, and the government also control publication, as I explained to you earlier, unless you have a sound overall understanding, collecting information fragment could cause a lot of confusion.

I have several other things at hand, have to run, be back later.

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Lew, I never said that small plant can't produce well tasted tea, what I was saying is that the concept of Puer is rather ambiguous, and there are too many dealers are taking this advantage to grab money from people. To me, Puer is a name that lasted about 2000 years, and my understanding about what is Puer is as simple as what it is for most of the time, yet, production premises are changing all the time, the Gong Cha institution only had been abolished for about 100 years and when the institution abolished, the standard began to be abused and I am waiting to see what they could present after a series of changing.

Lew, I never said that small plant can't produce well tasted tea, what I was saying is that the concept of Puer is rather ambiguous, and there

are too many dealers are taking this advantage to grab money from people. To me, Puer is a name that lasted about 2000 years, and my understanding about what is Puer is as simple as what it is for most of

the time, yet, production premises are changing all the time, the Gong Cha institution only had been abolished for about 100 years and after this institution was abolished, the standard began to be abused and I am waiting to see what they could present after a series of changing.

Lew, I never said that small plant can't produce well tasted tea, what I was saying is that the concept of Puer is rather ambiguous, and there

are too many dealers are taking this advantage to grab money from people. To me, Puer is a name that lasted about 2000 years, and my understanding about what is Puer is as simple as what it is for most of

the time, yet, production premises are changing all the time, the Gong Cha institution only had been abolished for about 100 years and after this institution was abolished, the standard began to be abused and I am waiting to see what they could present after a series of changing.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm actually quite interested in what you have to say about the politics of Pu'er.

/Lew

When I said the supply isn't very healthy, I meant that the leading suppliers of the industry is experiencing a very difficult time, I think they would need some time to settle down with the changing, that's the reason I suggested you guys to try other tea for a while, and come back to it when there is a more ressonable standard and production could be efftively regulated by it.

I don't want to talk about politics in my country, because we have too many very different "common sense", and these difference would definately destory a pleasent conversation; but I would love to point out several very obvious fact related to our topic.

Gong Cha institution could be regarded as a contribute to a powerful regime, and with this institution, there was a recognised standard of Puer. When Guo Min Dang came to power, they abolished it, don't know the exact reason (got several reasons in several books), they did it anyway, might be a consideration of democracy.

(1949-1976/77), Mr. Mao and the Communist party did a lot of things trying to prevent the things is actually happening nowadays in China. I have to admit that Mr. Mao's worry was reasonable and not only people in China is suffering from these, you guys also facing the fact that it is difficult to get good tea, but unfortunately... (those who interested in Mao's worry could refer to his publications, I am sure you could find enough material in English about these, just search Mao Zedong in your library)

Back to our topic, what is real Puer? Consider the amount of the contribution together with the standard made accordingly, I don't think the puer product under that standard could become a massive produced one, it simply too strict, and this should explain my statement about the two suppliers part. As there is a lack of regulating power and regulation, we still facing the fact that too many suppliers are claiming that they produce Puer...

Tired, come back later.