Ku Ding Cha

Yes: give it to your enemies.

/Lew

I finally got some as a generous gift from Kevin. Thought it was pretty good, though not memorable. Kind of a saturation-bitter experience, like strong quinine water (not G&T-grade tonic). People do seem to vary greatly in tolerance for the bitter range; it may also increase with age.

-DM

Lewis snipped-for-privacy@panix1.panix.com7/3/06 16: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

Wow. Ugly! Actually, you might enjoy the sweetness that wells up after you've embittered your mouth with this brand of holly. As for Ku Ding Cha (not) being healthy, I am reminded of ads for Buckley's cough medicine: It tastes so bad, it's got to be good for you. (Buckley's tastes like straight amonia.) Michael

Heh, it is rough stuff. I did notice the sweetness behind the bitterness in my third sip or so, but the initial bitterness kills all pleasantness. It is a unique experience for sure, and one I'm not so eager to do again. I gave some to my father, a bitter fan, and he stuck a whole spike in his mouth as is... it didn't stay in long but I was amazed it even possible.

I was only using 2-3 spikes per cup as per the instructions, but I think I've had enough to know better now. This stuff would have to cure male pattern baldness, while enhancing manhood by 4-6", while extending my life by 20 years, while increasing my income by 200% for me to drink it purely for the health benefits.

- Dominic

Dom,

With Kuding, there are many variables to consider. Firstly would be how fresh the tea is. If you are working with some tea that's too old, it can end up tasting like grass cuttings and vinegar. You also have to consider the amount of tea you are brewing and make sure not to use water that's too hot. Kuding is a green and should be treated as such.

The flavor you are supposed to get is a slight bitter kick with a sweetness that follows and remains for a long time. Don't give up on it completely; there are other versions of the tea that are quite nice. My personal favorite, and it is a beautiful tea, is qing shan lv shui. It has all those "health benefits", the appearance will impress your friends, and they don't make it with plastic like the "beautiful art tea" that that hussy was trying to market us a month ago.

Quite a few hollies, such as yerba mate, ku ding cha, and yaupon, contain caffeine.

N.

I like Kuding! Probably the one infusion (after tea - beer - water) that I'll go for. I just wish I could say I could find hot water 'anyway' I went anymore ... not even in bloody China can you get a bloody thermos when you want one these days, and when working in Hungary last week, the hotel had a (disguised - it took us a day ... ) minibar but no kettle ... otherwise, I'd be carrying with me a few tuocha and a few sticks of kuding wherever I went ... um, having said all that, my supply of qing shan lu shui looks like it will never deplete (nor lose it's taste)

ps, took Georgian black and shuang jing lu to hungary but survived on teabag earl grey and eng break (when lucky), wolf saliva and edelweiss

pps, Mydnight, please introduce me to the hussy ... I like beautiful art, tea and plastic!

cheers all,

Immoral Hints of Cheese

I find it curious Kuding is on the shelves with the teas and not in the herbal section. Even chrysanthemum is in the herbal section. It stumped me that qing shan lu shui means 'green mountain green water' but I got the two characters for green.

Jim

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I find it curious that anyone finds this palatable. I have now tried multiple infusions with all kinds of variables tweaked, and even a whole different brand of Kuding that is in a pearl shape rather than the spikes. I can't enjoy it. I like bitter things too, so it is a mystery to me how anyone can have an even greater tolerance for bitter than me but it must be.

I have seen it sold in herbal sections at a few places, and I bought mine from the caffeine free section of herbal/decaf teas and as I was informed in this thread that it does contain caffeine. I haven't been able to confirm 100% that it does, but I'm guessing I was wrong and that it does. Maybe that is why other places do not sell it in the herbal section, I could imagine a number of problems with selling it as herbal.

This is certainly not my cup of tea.

- Dominic

I find that strange too. I've had it maybe ten times in China, and there is a bag of it in my fridge, but no one told me that it wasn't tea. I like the stuff, but it just never occured to me that it wasn't just a particularly bitter variant of Camellia Sinesis. I'm finding this discussion very disorienting.

Well, most of the Chinese don't view tea in a scientific way. If you can put it in water to boil, many would just consider it tea. Camellia Sinesis is something that isn't heard too often. Most Chinese also don't know the differences between kuding and green tea either. Kuding is not drunk by that many people; it's also not really considered medicinal, so that would be why they don't put it in the medicine section.

Over in HK, I have seen a few shops that list it as medicinal. I have also seen pu'er in many med shops as well.

My Kuding pearls is my only 'tea' that comes with a nutrition label:

Total fat .02g 1.00% Sodium 1.2mg 6.85% Total Carb 34.7g 9.3% Hydroxybenzene 1.25g 25.00%

The above numbers tells me it was soaked in some kind of preservative. Nice to know the government puts a cap on my daily crude oil derivative intake. I guess no more licking my hands at the $3/gallon gas pump.

Jim

PS Maybe the same preservative for duck eggs some of which c> Space Cowboy wrote:

mmm... now with extra Hydroxybenzene! I sure hope that is for the entire box and not per serving. After hearing about spray-painted mushrooms, and added lead for weight, and a bunch of other wonderful additives to many Asian products I'm a bit more wary of what I buy. Few things scare me more than my trip to the Indian grocery today at lunch where in their newly remodeled store they were selling boxes of Brooke Bond Taj Mahal tea from 1992. At least they weren't more expensive due to the vintage. I explained to the owner how old these boxes were, and he assured me they would be sold first since they were placed at the front of the stack... as if that was an acceptable answer. Ugh. There is something to be said for food standards and inspections after all I guess.

- Dominic

You sure that's what it says? Hydroxybenzene is another name for phenol, the first-identified antiseptic. It's a preservative, all right, but that's approaching a lethal dose. Not that this helps unless one has encountered it elsewhere, but phenol is quite volatile and has a characteristic odor.

-DM

Space Cowboy wrote:

Since I saw you around I hoped this would catch your eye. The number(s) are right. I doubled checked them before the post. They apply to the recommended serving size of 5g. I would dismiss everything as a misprint but I think I can taste the salt. The pearls are 1g. I like the taste at 3g. I saw a link where organic hydroxybenzene is a naturally occuring sweetner. I know the Chinese are the masters of preservatives. I need to order some more Kuding and see how the tastes compare. I describe the taste as bitter with no real powerful aroma. This type of label is required for dietary supplements. If Product of CNINA is mispelled maybe the lab chemist meant to say PolyPhenol.

Jim

PS I ate > You sure that's what it says? Hydroxybenzene is another name for phenol,

Is it being used as a preservative, or does it naturally occur in the plant?

Carbolic acid/phenol/hydroxybenzene would definitely make it taste distinctively unpleasant, and it is something that does occur naturally in some plants.

--scott