Do the Chinese use the word "cha" for products that aren't technically tea? For example, the Japanese call infusions of dried barley "mugi-cha", and infusions of salted kelp "konbu-cha". Any similar usages in Chinese?
--crymad
Yes pretty any hot drinks with some botanic material can be call "Cha". The herbal medicine is call bitter tea.
Thanks for the reply. Can you give the names of some specific examples?
--crymad
There are many names for different kinds of herbal medicinal drinks, most of them are call some kind of Cha. One generic name is bitter tea (Fu Cha), for, well, the taste. Another name in Cantonese is Leung Cha (cool tea).
I suspected such uses existed in Chinese. Hope you don't mind my crossposting this to rec.food.drink.tea. Some knowledgeable but lily-livered friends of mine there refuse to be forthcoming on this matter.
--crymad
OK, let me ask you a question. If someone tomorrow in the US will take furtree needles, put them in the box and glue on a label "Sharp Needle Tea" ands suddenly it will become incredibly popular, - would that make it a tea? All the attempts to draw a crisp line between "tea" and "not tea" is completely senseless, because there is no world labeling authority. Mind you tea labeling is not regulated here (unlike England and Ireland), so anyone can write anything. I was asking everybody in China if the tea labeling regs exist and was told that yes, it does in the terms that large tea factories have their own internal regs how they name teas and in the same time a private producer can do anything he wants. And besides, tattletale-ing to other groups? Haven't they beaten you up enough in school for that?
Alex.
Actually, I agree with Crymad. Anything put in a box and labelled as tea is tea. When Alex makes Lynchburg Lemonade, it's really lemonade. When someone in China puts a snake in alcohol and calls it snake wine, it's really wine. And those candy cigarettes? You can really smoke them- they're cigarettes. Not only that, but you can use chocolate truffles in place of French and Italian ones in fancy recipes, because they really are truffles. And coconut water from the Caribbean is really just water, not coconut juice.
In other words, I believe everything I read. Of course, that also means I'm an idiot, and don't understand poetic or descriptive usage. I'm a literallist- which may be why they arrested me when I tried to drive the subway car.
Exactly my point. Mike made the comment in Puerh thread above that because the Chinese themselves call Puerh "cha/tea", we must acknowledge that they know best and respectfully follow suit. Though, as we've seen, "cha" in China is hardly limited to Camellia Sinensis.
My guess is that you too, Alex, knew the answer to my question, "Do the Chinese use "cha" exclusively for Camellia Sinensis?" when I posed it in the aforementioned thread. You simply chose to remain silent on the matter. In keeping with the schoolyard comparisons, please allow me to say, "you got owned, bitch!"
--crymad
Ok, let us take things step by step. First let me ask you some questions. Please so not skip the qudstions, answer them all:
1 Do you understand that the combination of two characters may be ONE word or TWO words? 1,2. is Hua Cha - tea? 1.3 is Sheng Cha - tea? 1.4. What is the difference between the two?The following is the list of most famous Chinese teas. I hope it will show up right, if not - I post the link also:
As you can see most of them do not have the "Cha" in their names at all. They may have a designation like Lu: Cha or Hong Cha, but most of them wouldn't, because every child in China knows that Long Jin is Lu: Cha TRADITIONALLY.
???? Long Jing 20/20 Dragon Well Xi Hu (Zhe Jiang) ????? Bi Luo Chun 20/20 Spring Snail Tai Hu (Hu Nan) ????? Tie Guan Yin 18/20 Iron Goddess An Xi (Fu Jian) ???? Mao Feng 17/20 Fur Peak Huang Shan (An Hui) ???? Yin Jan 14/20 Silver Needle Jun Shan (Hu Nan) ???? Qi Men Hung 12/20 Qi Men Red Qi Men (An Hui) ????? Da Hung Pao 11/20 Big Red Rope Wu Yi Shan (Fu Jian) ???? Gua Pien 11/20 Mellon Seed Liu An (An Hui) ???? Bai Hao Yin Jan 10/20 White Fur Silver Needle Fu Ding (Fu Jian) ???? Pu'er 10/20 Pu'er Si Mao (Yun Nan) ???? Wu Lung 9/20 Oolong Nan Tou (Taiwan) ???? Yun Wu 9/20 Cloud & Fog Lu Shan (Jiang Xi) ???? Mao Jian 7/20 Fur Tip Sin Yang (Hu Nan) ???? Gan Lu 5/20 Sweet Dew Ming Ding (Si Chuan) ???? Mao Jian 4/20 Fur Tip Du Yun (Gui Zhou) ?????? Muo Li Hua 3/20 Jasmine Su Zhou (Jiang Su) ???? Yu Lu 3/20 Jade Dew En Si (Hu Bei) ???? Zhu Cha 2/20 Pearl Tea Ping Shui (Zhe Jiang) ???? Hou Hui 2/20 Monkey King Tai Ping (An Hui)
What ius it you are trying to prove by discussing the presence or absense of the character CHA in teh name of the tea without taking in consideration anything but its presence per se? Cha may mean tea, i.e.something made of Ming (special charatre that means C. Sinensis leaves) or in a combination with other characters - some drink that has nothing to do with Ming. It may also be absent from the name of the C. sinensis tea - like most of the oolongs - see examples above. Does Te Guan Yin stops to be a tea because of that? Nobody ever write Te Guan Yin Cha, do you know that? So its is all tradition and NOTHING ELSE. Or should I follow your example and say "Its all tradition and NOTHING ELSE, bitch"?
Sasha.
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It appears that we have ventured deeply into the murky world of semantics. I never said that "Cha" ONLY referred to the liquor of a tea plant. They also use the term for herbal infusions etc just as we do.
The essence of what I was trying to communicate is that the Chinese people refer to puer as Cha in the classic Camellia Sinensis sense. Even Lu Yu referred to puer as tea in the classic sense in his first book titled "Cha Ching " the world's first book of tea, this book was about Camellia Sinensis based teas NOT herbal infusions. Cha in the sense that I am using it here refers to puer as a Camellia Sinensis tea.
BTW, sometimes silence means that we choose not to belabor the obvious and/or inconsequential.
Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net
There was a book _The beverages of the Chinese_ which had nothing to do with beverages but were a collection of old texts translated into english. The beverages were herbal formulas that accompanyed daoyin exercises in an analogolus manner. The terms "kung fu" and "qigong" were erroneously derived from these texts to describe one of the terms that accompanyed the plates teaching the postures (which were actually medical gymnastic yoga like exercise) which dealt with *breath swallowing*. Which is not TUNA and therefore no/not "breath skill". Without breath swallowing procedures and methodlogy, the postures will be mostly futile saving the fascial/meridian/psoas stretching and benefits coming from the changes and adustments in venos circulation. Hence "gung". The "gung" was the internal skill that went along with the fairly ARBITRARY postures (helps to know why your doing it too).
At least your question was to seek to find clarification. I find it ironic that a FRENCHMAN and a BRITISHMAN were responsible for inventing these stupid terms that gave birth to the cliche's and charlatans we see in the world today.
If only they knew!
snipped-for-privacy@mail.hongkong.com
Thats not really "the point". Lots of things are sold as "novelty", "incense" or "tea" that have hidden purposes (it gets you high). The arbitrary labeling is for legal protection among other things.
Not everyone here is in or from china. And there are plenty of "asians" willing to pull the wool over their white friends eyes if they are given the impression that their sterotypical attitude of knowing everything in general about asian culture and language in general, are kowtowed to.
snipped-for-privacy@mail.hongkong.com
Inconsequential is debatable. But the point was hardly obvious. My original question what not rhetorical -- I really didn't know and I really sought an answer.
--crymad
Gong fu is a term used in Chinese tea world to decribe the way of making tea for tasting with tiny teapot, usually from Yixin clay, the vessel for pouring (chahai) and a pair of tiny cups - one cylindrical and tall for smelling, one "normal". Other optional tools may be used. Gongfu is rarely used with other than oolong teas.The term means "hard work" and sometimes is written with the first character gong - "work" and sometimes gong - "result, accomplishment". The second character is fu - "man, male, husband". This term is also used in martial arts world, but I do not know any details and we are not talking about MA here. You may disagree with me on details of gongfu cha (gongfu tea) - like some people only use one small cup, some do not use chahai, but do you question the essence of these statements?
Sasha.
Hey, I'm crawling down into the sandbox to ask a question: What's the deal with "Oolong" -- the generic thing -- and "Wu Lung" -- the specific thing? I'm very confused by this. Our Big Apple Tea House (BATH; BAT House) serves an Oolong they call Wu Long, but I'm completely baffled. (Sorry, your questions are way over my head.)
Michael
Alex Chaihorsky6Ds0d.18672$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com9/10/04
21: snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.com
Bull - shame on them -
Wu Long and Oolong are complete synonyms. Serving an "Wu Lung" Oolong is like serving "Cha" tea. BTW, Wu Long means Black Dragon. This is a term Chinese use for all the partially oxidized teas, line Te Guan Yin Wu Long (Iron Bodhisattva Oolong Tea), Nai Xiang Wu Long (Milk Scent Oolong Tea).
Sasha.
So, Sasha, what's the deal with the Wu Lung on your list below:
BTW, regarding your TGYWL ref below, any particular Bodhisattva or will any BS do?
Michael
Alex ChaihorskyO4i1d.15012$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com9/13/04
10: snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.com
Sasha.
Alex ChaihorskyF5j1d.15031$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com9/13/04
11: snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.com
Why THANK YOU for the advice, Alex. I will indeed consider it.
Non other than Avalokitesvara. Looks rather different after the surgery, what?
Cheers, Michael
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