Not my cups of tea- whites and Darjeelings

Lewis

If you don't mind me asking, what colour is the tea liquor of your "green" Fuding Bai Hao tea?

Julian

Not at all. It's the palest shade of green. And, while these terms seem to have some elasticity, it's billed as Yin Zhen, not Bai Hao.

/Lew

This is my last post for the week, I will go crazy if I look at the PC anymore. This online thing is getting too addictive. I think I have to go back to reading a book and baby-sitting.

:)

As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:

1. withering, which take on average 2 days
2. drying

Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.

The important bit is the withering. The key is to encourage the chemical reactions to take place, without causing the tea polyphenol to oxidise. In this long process, moisture is reduced to mere 20%.

Ambient temperature, moisture, air-flow, how the leaves are spread out need to be carefully regulated.

In another note, no manufacturer can ever guarantee that their tea is completely sun-dried, because if day 3 happens to be cloudy or rainy, they have to use baking. The tea can't wait.

There is another variety of white tea called "new white tea", which is more oxidised, produces a tea liquor that is orangy in colour and tastes more like green tea but without the fragrance.

It comes from Fuding, so I was just wondering if this is the "green white tea" Lewis was referring too.

Julian

I've had some stunners from a new mail-order source,

tea AT finesttippy.com

who buys small lots of limited offerings. No web site yet, AFAIK. Disclosure: I got some free samples, and liked all of them. (More at RFDT posts of 3/1 and 3/5/07.) I'm told that a couple of other US vendors have access to specialty Darjeelings of this caliber, but haven't tested them yet.

As a broader statement, on which matter others here have commented: until about 50 years ago, Darjeelings were offered with greater fermentation. Since my youth, they've gone as green as a standard TGY. Personally, I don't think that the DJ aroma/taste profile works at all at low fermentation; too astringent and fragrant with not enough body. Now that oolong-style DJs are back, I'm a frequent drinker, either naked or with a little milk - seems to work just fine either way, to my surprise. Planning to try icing some now that hot weather is here.

-DM

The drying is mostly done through low temperature baking. Sun-drying will take too long for the tea and encourage cell oxidation. Oxidation does not occur in the processing of green tea, but for white tea, a low percentage of oxidation usually takes place - the new 'white tea' you mentioned has higher oxidation level, possibly to mimic the flavor of aged white tea, but it is not quite close. I think both 'new white tea' and 'green silver needle' are the lazy man's alternative to white tea, since the processing of white tea is very time consuming, making a green tea or making it with higher oxidation level are a much simpler process without having to supervise the processing too closely, but still, each tea has its fans and followers.

Withering takes place in both outdoor and indoor. The withering has to move between these two areas as soon as either place is deem unfavorable - the sun getting too hot, the leaves unable to reduce moisture indoor within desired time, etc.

Danny

I never like white teas but darjeelings are fine to me. I drink them with milk and sugar. I seldom drink them without them. I would definately try lochan teas from the review above.

But sun-drying can't remove enough moisture to yield stable finished tea, can it? Tea isn't grown and manufactured it deserts, after all.

Agreed, but what kind of withering are you speaking of? You're saying it takes place indoors, right?

I think I was wrong to say white tea *must* be sun-dried, but it's easy to find reputable sources on the Web that assert that the *best* white tea is sun-dried:

so that withering would be done in the sun.

Julian, you've actually seen this wither-then-dry manufacture done in Fujian, haven't you? I certainly don't want to put myself in the position of denying what you've seen with your own eyes!

But if the sun exposure were done on the *first* day, a manufacturer could pluck leaves and buds destined for white tea only on sunny days, right? Perhaps the Fuding green Silver Needle I have was plucked on a cloudy or rainy day. Not to mention Fuding and Zhenghe red teas...

/Lew

Withering takes the moisture down to 20%. Using the Zhenhe style, white tea is left in hot sun to dry all the way (6% and below).

But if day 3 is a cloudy/rainy day it is a different story.

As Danny hinted, there are 3 types of withering: natural, heated indoor, and combination.

Natural withering can take place indoor or outdoor. If it is exposed to sun, weak sun is used.

The Fuding white tea used all three. Zhenghe tend to use sun drying, subject to weather.

Lewis, I am open to challenge, and learning like everyone else. Tea making is such a complex subject that unless you are a pro (not myself, maybe only Nigel and other tea garden owners), you can never be sure of what actually happen.

The harvesting tends to take place on a sunny day, as any teas plucked during a rainy day will be bad. It just won't have the right chemical composition.

What distinguish the Zhenghe style is that the final drying uses sun, rather than the oven. Fuding tea can uses sun for withering too, but they never use the sun for drying.

The Zhenghe style may take shortcut in this way, akin to what you suggested.

Pick the tea on a sunny day, sun dry in the morning for 3 hours, then leave indoor to wither naturally. Finally oven-bake indoor. If done this way, I can't see much difference between the Fuding and Zhenghe style.

Julian

hello toci,

good day to you - i hope you had a wonderful weekend! i am ankit from india - just returned from a trip to bhutan and the first thing that i have landed myself into is this really intresting discussions on darjeeling white teas - i love to talk to people on the subject of "Darjeeling"

i do not know which white teas of darjeeling you have tried or drunk - i have a small request to make - please log on to

i personally believe that a lot of people for the sake of making money are misutilising the name darjeeling and it could be to the extent as mentioned by one of our friends on this usenet group that the tea you were supplied was not a real darjeeling produce - i do not gurantee that - just one of the options.

the darjeeling silver needles are light liquoring and muscatel tasting teas that leave a very sweet aftertaste while the bai mu dans are compared stronger and the oolongs are more on the white tea side but surely they have more strenghth than the whites.

i am not trying to change your views -- my motive is only to actually try to get you to taste the right darjeeling teas before coming to a final conclusion that darjeeling white teas are not your type.

regarding the darjeelings - if we are talking of blacks - you need to go to

looking forward to your reply soon!

regards ankit

hello friends - some of you may disagree and not like the way i have projected this - my motive is not to hurt anyone - just sharing some thoughts :

The Champagne of Tea

Darjeeling is the champagne of Indian tea. On the world market, without the name Darjeeling, Indian tea would be like French wine without the prestige of champagne. This wine of wines forms only 3 percent of the total production in France but its prestige-value is incalculable.

Other countries like Italy, Germany, Portugal and Spain produce just as good wine as France does. In fact, certain varieties like Morselle and Riesling from Germany and Chianti from Italy are far better than their French comparables. And yet, France experiences a unique pride and enjoys an unusual prestige in the realm of wine. In fact, in the mind of the average person, especially outside Europe, good wine is synonymous with French wine.

As with champagne and wine, so with Darjeeling and tea, the mention of the finest tea anywhere in the world immediately brings to the mind the sound of the word Darjeeling. The district produces only about ten million kilograms of tea which is about 1 percent of the total Indian production. Yet, it is reported that ten times as much tea is sold as Darjeeling tea both overseas as well as in India. Instances have been detected when a tea packet purported to have been packed in another country claimed to contain pure Darjeelings. Such is the charisma of the word Darjeeling and the temptation to exploit it to realize either a premium price or a larger sale.

regards ankit lochan

hello!

i am a bit confused on what is the issue going on about sun drying.

a clarification - in darjeeling - we never sun dry our white teas.

regards ankit

Hi--

I have always loved reading your posts! Thank you!

Teasetc has two white darjeelings on their site right now. One is "Darjeeling White," and the notes say it is from Poobong Estate. The other is "Darjeeling First Flush White Tea," and the notes don't say where it comes from. Is this second one the Thurbo you were recommending?

Many thanks,

james-henry

It's probably what you use if you dump a clogged teapot of SowMee down the sink. SowMee looks like the fall leaves that have dried out in the sun from my Maple tree.

Jim

toci wrote:

Ankit, So good to hear from you! If anyone should have the scoop on fine Darjeelings, it would be Lochan family member! I suppose I started this "sun-drying" thing in a previous posting: the white tea I enjoyed so much from Imperial Tea Court, "Everyday White", is fully sundried. Mr. Roy Fong, proprietor, said this was a rare thing nowadays because most whites are partially roasted. I garnered this information from him directly since I was participating in a Spring 2007 Green Tea Tasting which he offered. It's on his web-site, as well. Thanks so much for piping in here to share information about the complexities of good Darjeelings. Shen

Julian, this could be the RFDT motto. I hate it when I allow myself to use an authoritative tone of voice here.

/Lew

Definitely!

N., ducking

But not fast enough: you're under arrest for excessive certitude.

/Lew

hi james,

thank you for the kind words!

The darjeeling first flush is the one i was refering to - please go ahead and try that. it hails from the thurbo tea estate.

Something on the Thurbo tea estate for you as Beth has not mentioned where the tea hails from.

"Thurbo Tea garden, owned and operated by Goodricke Group Limited, is right in the heart of Mirik. In the hills of Mirik the clouds hang so low, you can literally reach up and touch them! The lush green hills and the beautiful earthy smell is only accentuated with the shafts of sunlight piercing the clouds to create a surreal atmosphere. The weather is cool during most parts of the year with drizzling rain, allowing the bushes to grow slowly and produce the muscatel flavor."

regards ankit lochan

hi shen,

you really make me feel on top the world - thank you very much for all the appreciation - highly grateful to you.

i have tasted some sun dried white tea but i believe that it tends to taste a bit harsh if it is sundried and i personally prefer more delicate white teas which are indoor dried.

regards ankit