Plant extracts (teas) mimicking cannabis. Are they legal?

'round these here parts, "tea" refers only to products of the plant _Camellia Sinensis_. Any other herbal infusion into water is a "tisane". I don't know how I'd categorize this "near-hash" of yours, but it wouldn't be "tea".

stePH

-- GoogleGroups sucks ass.

For years there's been some guy advertising a similar mixture in the back of Rolling Stone, so this is not a new thing, and nobody seems to be going after the guys promoting it. On the other hand, if the stuff was any good, the DEA probably _would_ be going after them.

I believe that the Analog Drug Act does make this stuff illegal, but it could also be argued that it makes tea and banana peels illegal too.

--scott

How so?

stePH

-- GoogleGroups licks balls.

P.T.Barnum once said, "there's a sucker...." I can't imagaine who buys this stuff since ganga (I'm told) is freely available in large cities and on campus...

Real crap that has nothing to do with ganga, and most certainly does not act as an intoxicant... If it did, you can bet that some government agency would shut them down...

Yes, because it's a placebo.

In the eighties, designer drugs started appearing. And the drugs that were being made were all basic variations of Schedule I and Schedule II drugs, but they weren't identical to them, so technically they were legal.

After making dozens of different similar amines illegal, Congress passed the Analog Drug Act, which basically makes it illegal to possess anything that is structurally similar to a Schedule I or Schedule II drug.

This seems to make xanthines like caffeine illegal, since there is one xanthine on Schedule II.

It's still not as much fun as the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, which defines any subcarrier as an encrypted communication, thereby making it illegal to listen to FM stereo broadcasts.

--scott

Actually, he didn't. Most likely David Hannum did, and it got misattributed to Barnum (though Wikipedia has a different story [but also mentions Hannum].)

stePH

-- GoogleGroups sucks ass.

Let's leave poor Mr. Barnum and his non-existant quotes out of this - also suckers, loosers and all other chidish labels - the question is very simple and its about knowledge, not guesses. Do you know this from personal experience, articles, etc of you just applying "common sense"? C'ause if you applying just "common sense" that's not much help, since my question was about specific knowledge. I am aware of DEA, ATF, etc. and in the absense of what seem to be quite an energetic following, I would not even pay attention at these ads. However, living next to "Burning Man" desert I hear many praises for these products from passing pagan folk that has also a habit of hanging out in Reno for a week or two before and after the "event". And these, as oppose to very ignorant yours truly, are very knowledgable (in this subject) crowds. I doubt that they can be fooled by a "placebo".

Also when you speak of "freely available" - you are not suggesting "available for free" or "legally available" or " openly available"? I asked several of my student friends about this and they all asked me to ask you back what the hell is "ganga"?

Sasha.

Thanks Scott. It looks like Analog Drug Act outlawed 90% of natural remedies with one sweep! Did they ever defined the level of structural similarities? And, BTW, which law outlaws petroleum or glue sniffing if any? I mean is there a law that sez that if something makes a bunch of Homo Sapience "high" other than alcohol, its illegal? Then again, they would need to define a high...

I guess the only way to find out is to buy some and test it on my quite adventurous SF friends. But then I may be seen as a distributor? Ah, the land of Freedom! And its glorious Evangelical Politburo!

Sasha.

Sasha, ganga is (I believe) the Jamacan term for marijuana. As to the herbal blend you sent the URL for, it contains things like Datura derivatives and Lobelia derivatives, both of which are powerful herbs in an of themselves and not something I myself would mess with without being under the care of a knowledgeable naturopath. I seem to remember someone telling me Lobelia has an affect on the heart, and I think Datura does the same. I know they sell it at the local health food store in bulk but that doesn't make it safe...but you know that. (On that page they also say that Scotch Broom tops are a traditional smoking material...they should come up to where I live, we can't get rid of the blasted stuff)

As to people being "fooled" by placebos...well, to be honest, if people are very driven to have an out of the ordinary experience, they'll have it. Some of these herbs may relax or whatever, but I don't think that they'd produce the sorts of effects that one would attribute to things like say opium. But of course I'm talking from a non-experiencer so....maybe you SHOULD ask your friends. Personally I find drumming works better. ::shrug:: JMHO.

Melinda

I see. Thanks, Melinda.

Sasha.

Hey, placebo is the most powerful drug around. It's so strong that even a tiny fraction of the standard dose is just as effective. Although when I worked in a hospital, it was in the pharmacy database as "Obecalp Forte." They had pills, elixir, and injectable form.

--scott

Who said I was "guessing"? It's still my opinion that web sites like these are aimed at "suckers" - if you disagree, buy it, then smoke it. Report back as to whether it produced the same effect as smoking an equal amount of hashish. I know what the answer will be, but inasmuch as you seem to demand empirical proof, and that can only be found by smoking both it and hashish.

Even if I did, I would not so state in a public forum - marijuana/hashish is illegal.

Let me try again: that product can not produce the kind of intoxication provided by hashish. Period. Tetrahydrocannabinol is the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana (Hashish is the sticky resins and pollen from the flowers) and none of the ingredients listed are even remote analogs of THC.

Consequently if they report that this product produces a "high" like THC, I'll continue to tell you that it's a placebo effect and that these folks fooled you into thinking that they are knowledgeable. YMMV as they say.

For example: datura is used as a hallucinogen by some native Amazon peoples; all species of Datura contain powerful alkaloids which in sufficient quantities have the power to kill. The main alkaloids represented are Scopolamine, Hyoscyamine and Atropine and produce a wild, hallucinogenic and rather unpleasant trip. I doubt there is datura in this fellow's product; in fact he qualifies it by saying it is a datura "derivative" - whatever that may mean.

Then you're asking the wrong people. Ganja is a common (Google turned up 4,290,000 references) slang term for marijuana/hashish.

Sonam Dasarapmpfnzveqofm.httv9wugqjcz$. snipped-for-privacy@40tude.net/15/05

OK, Mr. Smartypants: What's "Bang"?

"Mr. Smartypants" ????????????? Do you mean "Bhang"? If so, it's a sweet (milk, almonds, sugar, cloves etc) Asian tea prepared with the leaves of the marijuana plant, drunk by the poorer folks. The wealthier ate hashish.

I believe Mr. Plant is referring to your mis-spelling "ganja" in your original post. Your attempted retcon notwithstanding, you spelled it "ganga" and almost every Google hit on *that* word refers to the alternate name for the river Ganges.

stePH

-- Today's waste is tomorrow's overtime.

Returning to a theme, not to mention a thread, let me say Mr. Plant is not now, and has never been, a spelling snob.

/Lew

I was the first to correctly spell ganja in this group about a year ago. My missing two k's of wild tree large leaf Banzhang just showed up. A good substitute for hallucinations is delirium. Get sick, really sick. If it can produce a buzz people are eating,drinking,smoking,snorting,injecting it. The war against drugs is a war against the American people. Addiction and recovery is cheaper than crime and punishment. Our low was in the single digits last night. I thought Bang was the sound of the eyelids of the Bodhisattva hitting the ground.

Jim

Lewis Per>

Sonam snipped-for-privacy@40tude.net/15/05

Don't be upset. It's inappropriate, but meant friendly.

Yes. Please excuse the spelling error. That's it, exactly. Being a poor boy, I never ate hashish. Have you ever been to Quetta in Baluchistan?

Michael

snipped-for-privacy@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com11/15/05

StePH,

Respectfully, I wasn't actually referring to Sonam's spelling error, such corrections being forbidden me by my God. I wouldn't know from first hand experience, of course, but I have heard it said that drinking Bhang, you need to be *very* careful not to overdo it, because the desired result would creep up on you much more slowly than it would using intake methods. But, who am I to lecture the cognoscenti (sp?)?

Michael