Pu-Erh: what's really in it

Aparently, it's made from green tea which has been moulded with Aspergillus niger, which is a common mold, for about 3 months or so, then the leaves are dried and aged for 2 years. It produces the dark mold you find on foods like bread or fruit, and also is commonly found in peat. It is related to Aspergillus oryzae, which is the mold used to produce Asian fermented foods such as miso, amazake, soy sauces, and rice wine (aspergillus oryzae, I believe, is usually lighter colored).

Food consumption of Aspergillus niger is considered safe by the World Health Organization in small amounts, however... horticultural workers who work with peat, peat moss, etc., may be susceptable to aspergillosis, a very serious lung infection, particularly in people with compromised immune systems. Aspergillus spores can also cause allergic reactions in some individuals. Aspergillus niger doesn't produce carcinogenic mycotoxins, however, although some other Aspergillus genus members do. Pu-erh's health effects have been less studied than green tea, but it does appear to share with other teas, a degree of protection of DNA and cholesterol lowering properties (indeed, in one study the ability to neutralize nitric oxide DNA damage was slightly greater than black tea, from what I remember), despite the fact the tea is truely fermented (unlike black tea), leading one to ask wheather Aspergillus niger might have some possible contribution.

I'm not expert in mycology or medicine, of course. It's interesting that most of us throw out moldly bread, yet there's tea costing alot of money that is covered in the stuff. To each his own, I guess.

Reply to
magnulus
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The mold you find on a Pu-erh should be a white one, not a black one!!! Different mold can develop on a Pu-erh when it is placed in different environment. Some are good, some are BAD. The good apsergillus we Chinese talk about is NOT aspergillus niger. Not a black mold!

It is believed that a Pu-erh has to go through the process of developing white mold, then letting it disappear. Only after a Pu-erh gone through the whole process, it is considered completely aged.

The correct process for aging a Pu-erh:

Green Pu-erh, let it ages naturally. Storage room is the key to the aging. Experienced Pu-erh vendor knows the value of a dry old stroage room. It is normally guarded. I am not kidding.

Wo Dui processed (or black Pu-erh but not includes those wet storaged ones) Pu-erh, loose teas were first go through the Wo Dui process (scientifically speedy aging), then compressed. Only a few large factories know the real process. If you are not familiar with the factory on the label, you are better off stay with green Pu-erh. BYW, the import/export company Pu-erh bing cha is a product of Cha Yuan (Tea Garden) group. Improperly processed pu-erh can be harmful to your health. You may visit the discussion on our site at

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for more info.

Linda

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has been moulded with

about 3 months or so, then

produces the dark mold you

commonly found in peat. It

mold used to produce Asian

sauces, and rice wine

lighter colored).

considered safe by the World

however... horticultural workers who

susceptable to aspergillosis, a very

with compromised immune

allergic reactions in some

produce carcinogenic mycotoxins,

members do. Pu-erh's health

but it does appear to share

and cholesterol lowering

to neutralize nitric oxide DNA

from what I remember), despite

black tea), leading one to ask

possible contribution.

course. It's interesting that

tea costing alot of money

own, I guess.

Reply to
jinyuxuan

I can't see mold on the tea, so I cannot confirm this. However, it definitely smells like peat- rotten vegetation and peat moss.

It's 3rd grade loose Pu-Erh from Ten Ren (they sell tea on the net). It's cheap stuff. I don't know if the 1st and 2nd grades are better.

The tea is drinkable if I brew it for three minutes or so. If I brew it a full five minutes, it's just too nasty.

With so many other good teas out there... my feeling is, why drink it? Like everything else, I suppose it was worth a try.

Reply to
magnulus

Judging from the description on your website, it sounds like the Pu Erh I have is the wet processed variety. The tea it makes is almost black and muddy looking, and the leaves themselves are dull with no color.

Reply to
magnulus

For the purported health benefits, perhaps. The few Japanese acquaintances I know who drink Puerh all do so for tonic, not taste. I'd be interested to learn Kuri's impressions of Puerh drinking in Japan. Not because I place greater faith in the good taste of the Japanese when it comes to tea, but simply because I think non-Asians are overly respectful and hesitant to voice criticism for fear of insulting the mysterious East's rich cultural heritage.

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

As you suggested, the Pu-erh you drank is a "cooked" one, not a green one. By all means, if its not to your liking, give up Pu-erh; but, not until you've tried a decent green one. They are quite different.

Michael

magnulusbM68d.131671$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews4.bellsouth.net10/4/04

03: snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net

Reply to
Michael Plant

Actually it sounds like a standard black to me. I would recommend you nose around on my site if you want to learn more. I not only provide a lot of information but I also provide links to just about every Puerh related site I know of.

Mike Petro snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

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remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Reply to
Mike Petro

You mean there is an illegal, underground, lethal verion of this stuff? I'd have to think if you're going too bother you'd produce something that is non toxic so you'd have a customer the next time. I'm calling HomeLand Security right now. Everytime you read a post someone is uping the ante blah blah blah with the lastest one upmanship a master for the gullible masses. It's the east pulling the west's leg. It's the chai fad of a couple of years ago. What next bubble puerh? You can't fool me with your only one on the block taste in tea. Does anyone remember Darjeeling white? Hundreds of posts with everyone blabbering about how great their free samples tasted from the one and only plantation in India producing the stuff. So now we have a claim of tossing out all other teas and only drinking this stuff. Hogwash. At best this is just another taste for your repertoire. You'll miss your Lipton's Yellow Label when you see it behind the tea urn where they on purpose misplace the achar when you eat at an Indian restaurant. I'll wait out the fad and buy it at my local discount store for the 05 year end holidays. Mysterious Chinese wrapping is a big seller. It'll go great with my $10 tetsubins from last Christmas already in the discount stores for the holidays.

Jim

obliterated by the snip meister

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Very likely the pu-erh you got is wet storaged. What about the wet leaves? Do they look rotten, lack of texture? If the answer is yes, then it is a wet storaged Pu-erh for sure. Regardless, the one you have is not a good quality one for sure. Try the following: wash the tea few times before you drink it. Also, shorten your brewing time. If you were brewing it with a gai wan, do not cover it. Or, if you can find a thick wall rough clay purple clay teapot, use it to brew the pu-erh you have.

Grade 3 Pu-erh should be pretty good. Although an expensive Pu-erh is not necessarily a good Pu- erh, a cheap Pu-erh is for sure a low quality one. There is just too many fixed costs in producing a good quality one.

Also, as I have mentioned many times on this news group, the taste of a real black (Wo Dui) pu-erh will actually improve after being stored for a few years.

Hope this helps.

Linda

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it sounds like the Pu Erh I

makes is almost black and

dull with no color.

Reply to
jinyuxuan

Actually Jim she is being pretty truthful here about the molds. I have done a LOT of research on molds lately and what she says about them is true. The point that was made about how "improperly" stored puer "can" be unhealthy is quite accurate. The environment can encourage or inhibit the growth of mold strains. You can definitely create an environment that encourages the growth of bad mold strains.

Now the part about "only" large factories know how to make black puer is debatable. Although it is conceivable that someone could screw up the microbial soup. It is also very conceivable that it might wind up here if it did occur as I truly believe that we in the west often get Asia's rejects. There is such a thing as "Junk Tea" dealers who peddle, what we call factory seconds/rejects, to those looking for really cheap tea.

Mike

Reply to
Mike Petro

Linda,

Which strain of Aspergillus is the good mold?

Mike

Reply to
Mike Petro

Who consumes these, then? The interest in Puerh outside China is a recent phenomenon. Surely this low-grade and foul-tasting Puerh is not produced solely for export.

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

Mike snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com/4/04

17: snipped-for-privacy@pu-erh.net

Primordial microbial soup, perhaps? No, I'm *not* going there.

Know thy vendor.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

Who wants to be the guinea pig? The only thing I worry about getting is Hepatitis C from my ethnic forays.

Jim

...hung out too dry...

Reply to
Space Cowboy

Oh, you give them too much credit. Any self-respecting Japanese knows Chinese rice and soy sauce stinks to high heaven. Why should tea get special treatment?

This comes as quite a surprise.

--crymad

Reply to
crymad

I hope you meant Chinese rice wine and not Chinese rice? Soy sauce doesn't stink heaven high, fish sauce does the job better. Soy sauce stinks terribly while fermenting, but the end product can make the food taste better. I'm not sure how many types of soy sauce Japanese have in their cuisine, I'm always baffled by the soy sauce for the sushi and the tempura and many others, but in Chinese cuisine, we have more than 4 types, and some soy sauce can be sweet instead of salty, so I wonder to which soy sauce the self-respecting Japanese considers stinky?

Samar

Reply to
samarkand

Actually, as an Asian who love tea, and who have been corresponding to many non-Asian tea lovers, I find the ones most quick to voice criticism on tea and its culture are non-Asians. Whether the criticism is borne out of ignorance, misguided knowledge, or half-knowledge, I'm not certain, but I often find their arguments leaning on personal preferences and partial knowledge.

If I were to drink a lousy Starbuck latte in one place, I don't think I have the right to dismiss that all Starbuck lattes are terrible. Likewise with Pu'er, some of us may have a bad experience with Pu'er, and readily dismiss the tea whenever it is mentioned. I believe we should give the tea more opportunity to unravel itself to us before we judge it.

I think the biggest misconception here is that people believe Pu'er must come with mold. The truth is, classes of aspergillus niger, penicillium, rhizopus, aspergillus gloucus, saccharomyces, and bacterium are active only during the Wo Dui process. Through a system of delicate balance, these active 'agents' break down the phytochemical structure of the tea while fighting to cross out each other. The tea leaves need to be baked again at high heat to kill the bacteria and Fungi. These loose leaves are then either steamed once more before compressing or left as loose leaf. Whichever the 'fate', Pu'er from this stage onwards does not neccesary need a host of fungi or bacteria, the oxidation and fermentation should wholly take place within the leaves' phytochemical structure, hence the golden rule of storing Pu'er is to keep it in a area where it is airy and dry - to prevent mold.

Reading over the records and books on Pu'er, I believe that this praise over 'moldy' Pu'er is stemmed from an earlier misconception, where the old Pu'er hunted down by early Taiwanese Pu'er fanatic fans were found in old Hongkong eateries, where the teas were not stored properly.

Pu'er liquor should be amber and clear, and the steeping not too long till it yields a mucky black sludge. Dried cooked Pu'er should smell of clean old libraries, not a fishery or warehouse. If you find mold on the Pu'er cake, take a soft brush to brush it off. And when you brew, use very hot water and discard the 1st round. A good cup of Pu'er is one where you can see the bottom of the cup through the amber liquor, if you see your own reflection staring back on the dark surface, then your tea is probably too strong.

Samar

Reply to
samarkand

samarkand41638bf3$ snipped-for-privacy@news.starhub.net.sg10/6/04 02: snipped-for-privacy@uk2.net

Actually, you probably do; because Starbucks prides itself on consistency from time to time and store to store.

Absolutely right, in my opinion. But, there is a "Pu-erh taste" that might just not be to everybody's liking. There are qualities that tie green Pu-erh, for example, together.

OK so far.

Well, if it's in really bad condition, send it on to America and tell us its rare. That usually does it.

I love clean old libraries, but what about that clean earth/loam/peat/ wet-leaves-beneath-my-feet smell that I find often in nice cooked Pu-erhs? I like that. As for old books, I am happily reading one, but steeping it would be another matter entirely. I'm trying to get a handle on your association here.

I started out with Pu-erhs thinking that an opaque black liquor was proper. Now, I know better. Here's my question, though: Would a "good" Pu-erh, cooked or uncooked, ever become opaque? Would that opacity indicate something else, such as wet stored Pu-erh?

Another Pu-erh question: There seems to be a common idea that adolescent Pu-erhs taste harsher than those that are either younger and older. That is to say, a 7 year old will be harsh, while a two year old or 20 year old will not. Trouble is, I've not found this to be so for the most part. Any ideas? Perhaps it's because "harsh" is too harsh a word, and these are relative qualities. Whatever.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Plant

Sorry, Michael -

With all due respect, this is a legend. I have had such shitty coffee at SB that you wouldn't believe. And I am not talking about airport SB, which are all below standard, but at-mall variety that are supposed to be better ones.

Sasha.

Reply to
Alex Chaihorsky

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