Re: infusion confusion

> > Everytime I read steeping recommandations for green teas, they don't make > sense. They seem highly illogical to me. Here's how I understand it : > > Tannins, astringent substances present in tea leaves, are disolved into > water. The quantity released depends on steeping time, water temperature, > and the variety of tea. > > If you brew a green tea for too long, in a too hot water, it will taste bad > because to much tannins are released, in proportion to other desired > subtances. The desired substance are released much faster than the unwanted > tannins. Therefore, most green teas acheive a peak in "good tasting" > chemicals, without releasing too much "bad tasting" tannins, in less than > 120 seconds. > > [...diagram...] > > Where it gets illogical is where I read "a green tea can be steeped several > times". Multiple infusions seem to have a magical reset effect on relative > concentrations. I would have taught that eventually all the "tasty" > subtances will be extracted and overpowered with remaining tannins. For me, > the last of three 2 minutes infusions should be at least as bad as a single > 4 minutes infusion. > > Why am I wrong?
1) Even granting your assumption that all components are either good or bad, why assume *all* the bad ones are slower to dissolve than *all* the good ones? 2) I know you've mentioned that temperature is important, but by focusing on time you've pretty much abstracted away temperature. I think it's fair to say that for those of us who tend to brew greens fairly cool (say 140F) astringency is rarely much of a concern. Bitterness, maybe, but not astringency with a decent green. 3) I don't have measurements to back this up, but I think there are lots of cases where greens yield up their goodness - and badness? - along curves that are more complicated than you assume. That's why for lots of greens, especially Japanese ones, the first steep will take longer than either of the next two. Unsupported by plant physiology, I suspect that this has to do with the cell walls getting damaged enough during the first steep that the loss of the mechanical barrier to solubility dominates the decline in the sheer amount of potential solutes.

That said, I'm confused too. It would be so nice to have a universal formula or rule of thumb rather than having to try lots of possibilities each time I encounter a new type of green!

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin
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temperature,

Ok, I'm going to be the very annoying person who says that if every green tea behaved the same way, that would take all the fun out of exploring each new kind. I hope we're not getting close to the Tea-O-Matic machine territory! ;)

N.

Reply to
WNW

"WNW" wrote

Don't worry. The echantment will still be there.

Even if we have a perfect understanding of fireworks' ballistics, it's still a amazing show to witness.

(^o^)

Reply to
Julie C.

I completely understand what you mean. If I had no zest for experimentation I would probably (still) be a coffee drinker. But I reserve the right to be inconsistent, and there are times when I just want things to be simple and easy.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

I mentioned powdered tea in another thread, but that would be pretty consistent, no? Just mix one teaspoon powdered tea with one cup hot water.. and voila!

N.

Reply to
WNW

Well, to be fair, I think it is a relatively safe assumption to say that for a particular tea drinker, there is a combination of flavors that is considered good. Call it a window, perhaps, of flavor.

I've found this phenomenon curious as well. However, I'm not willing to give up and say that the diffusion process of dead tea leaves is so complex. Rather, I think it has ALOT to do with the bitterness of the tea (as served). A tea that is brewed with too much leaf can taste bitter, brewed the same length of time as one with less leaf. I've heard discussions in here about the differences in philosophy with regards to time and leaf amount and temperature. I think they are all important variables. But, I think that with any tea comes a level of bitterness (good) that each individual is accustomed to. If that bitterness is too high, or too low, the tea is no longer good.

Given that different temperatures and times can bring out different flavors in a tea, a person who resteeps their leaf may prefer a lower temperature; the different steepings taste different, which makes the tea a temporal experience, changing with each cup, as the tannins come out in different percentages. Note, some people will lower the steeping temperature of later steepings to curb this tendency.

I hope I am not blabbering here. For those scientifically minded folks, I am thinking about a diffusion process where the different constituents of the tea have different half-lives, and steep out of the leaf at different rates. Those "decay constants" vary with temperature, but not so much with time, but as the leaf changes, the flavor extracted should be different as different concentrations predominate the diffusion process.

For myself, I usually don't go beyond 2 steepings on the (green) tea I drink, unless I am trying it for the first time, in which case I usually two independent runs at high and low temperatures with small cups and many steepings. I write down the dominant flavors, usually with some sortof number to chracterize "how much" as I go, which gives me an idea of how the liquor changes over time. I currently am pretty bad a labeling the flavors to be consistent across teas, but I can look at the data and get a pretty good idea of what I want to do with it when I start actually drinking it.

Steve (back from the dead)

Reply to
Steven Hay

Not necesarily, at least not necessarily for me. I often find that for a given tea that I'm unable to reach some unique best cup but can achieve, say, two different good ones with different brewing conditions. Actually I'm not sure this is a bad thing; I *like* being able to enjoy different "sides" of the same tea.

/Lew

Reply to
Lewis Perin

Lew, I can't agree more. When I have time to do multiple infusions, it is usually worth it. It adds a temporal dimension to the experience. I just think that once a person does that with a tea, they can usually produce a rather tasty single-infusion cup for themselves when they are in a hurry, using the information they gained from tasting it.

Steve

Reply to
Steven Hay

I would go further than that. The information I gain from tasting is one-time info. I've made infusions that I thought were perfect- and then found they were better after a phone call forced me to ignore my tea and it had cooled down. I've had excellent cups when the water was allowed to get to hot through inattentiveness. I've even found that what is ideal in a particular tea on a summer day is out of place on a cold night.

That's just me- but I no longer have a set window for tea. The tea changes with my mood, and I change with the taste of the tea.

>
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