Tenren in Toronto.

welcome back, o dark one...;)_

most excellent - i HATE it when retail people treat customers as if they wish they hadn't even walked in the door. notwithstanding the fact that people do have bad days, &c, there is absolutely NO excuse for it. how did she apologise to you...?

conversely, i had a very nice exp. in the san fran tenren. i went in with my son, who was about 8 at the time, and ended up spending about 2 hours in the shop. the people there were nice beyond need - they even went out of their way to make sure my boy had fun, and learned something about tea to boot. she prepared for us a rare long jing, and told us tea stories from the old country - and all of this before she had any indication that we were even interested in buying anything - which we did. i recall leaving with a very, very nice pi lo chun.

and yes, i'm still interested in your tea-from-china idea -- by all means keep us informed........p*

just said 'duibuqi' (sorry) a bunch of times and feichang duibuqi which i haven't heard before (i guess 'very sorry') and said she didn't expect me to know Chinese; like that would make it better, right? heh.

That has been my former experience in shops in China. It's supposed to be like that. They are supposed to try and develop a relationship with the customer, not just treat them as cattle. It's an unspoken rule (in China) to never buy tea on the first time you visit a shop, and most shopkeepers know that. I mean, I was willing to buy tea from those shops, though overpriced, if they would have treated me with respect and courtesy regardless of the rule. It would have been an experimental buy.

will do. This experience spurns me further.

Mydnight

-------------------- thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

My experiences with Ten Ren are nowadays invariably disappointing. In my city they are like used car salesmen who can't speak English. Nothing to recommend them. Pass them by. Besides, they are now to big for their own good. There is nothing they sell that can't be gotten better elsewhere. I do buy my bamboo tea scoops from them. But, that's about it.

Michael

snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com/2/05

It's a pity. I was hoping that at least they would keep their intregrity being such a big chain and all, but pilo at least had a good experience with their shop in San Francisco. Which city did you visit it?

Mydnight

-------------------- thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com/3/05

It's New York City, where I live. They have three branches here. I shy away from chains anyway.

Michael

I wouldn't expect the culture of selling tea in China to be the same elsewhere. I don't want to buy any loose tea where somebody's nose has been. In my local tea shoppe there are smelling samples. We've all been disappointed in some tea we bought. I've had teas that smell great but taste lousy. I think the only given is you follow it from the bush to the pot. I still can remember the first time I stepped into a TenRen shoppe in the early seventies and haven't been back. It was the first time I ever felt sticker shock from tea. They also sell crap for the commercial shelves. Taiwan teas are becoming more available and I guess there was a time when they were the only player. Usually what happens the market passes you by and you're wondering where all the customers went. Anybody in this group would be absolutely thrilled you supplied them with all the fresh cheap Chinese tea they could drink but don't quit your day job. I hate surly clerks but we've spent two generations telling kids it is better to have an inflated sense of self worth instead of being smart.

Jim

Mydnight wrote: ...lots of trimming...

Yes, but since the shop is so popular and abundant all over China, I thought they would at least keep some of the customs and courtesy. I don't mind someone's nose being in the tea that much because the first washing is supposed to take care of any germs or whatnot that are left on the leaves. Over there, they don't care if you stick your hand in the jar and feel the leaves; and most of the shopkeepers go through new shipments by hand and pick out stems. I guess the first washing is more practicable instead of it being a tradition in China.

In my local tea shoppe there are smelling samples. We've all

One of the best bits of advice I got about tea was from a rather pragmatic shopkeeper in a tea market where he bluntly asserted in the local dialect, "You won't learn shit about the tea until you drink it." Consequently, he's a good friend of mine now.

I think the only given is you follow it from

Definitely.

Taiwan teas are becoming more

It's bad management that's the cause in this case, I think.

Anybody in this group would be

Ya, I sorta planned on doing this service more out of a hobby rather than a sole profession. It wouldn't take too much time out of my day to throw some tea in the mail. If I were to open a shop, it would probably be in China with the help of some of my friends.

Mydnight

-------------------- thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

I can, unfortunately, second this the NY locations I've been to. But, like Pilo, I had uniformly excellent service (including tasting) at the shop in SF.

N.

So why is exposing tea to the elements and possible contamination by repeated handling any fresher than the tea from my local tea shoppe where such environmental risk is probably prohibited by the health department anyway because all buffets in my state require a sneeze guard. In my local tea shoppe you can sample any tea you want for buck/oz. The caveat the sampler comes in separate trays of 24 each per oxidation category. If push comes to shove you can sample literally anything for $2.50/cup to go and $3.75/pot at a table. One of my resolutions this year is too 'put on the airs' and finally go to a tea tasting and hope someone's idea of gongfu service doesn't give me food poisoning because they didn't use boiling water after repeated scooping of the tea with their hands too visually inspect and smell the tea.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:

...tsunamied...

I think it would risk enviormental contamination by putting it in small vacuum bags and shipping it all over the world, possibly in transit for weeks, and it being poorly handled more than someone putting their hands on it or smelling it. Many companies don't use scoops solely for bagging, I'm fairly sure, and they do have to go through it by hand to pick out stems and increase the value of the tea (esp wulong and tie guan yin). Hence the recommendation to rinse the leaves with a brewing before you drink. I mean, unless the tea comes in teabags, you really have no idea what the leaves went through or really how fresh they are other than by tasting and having experience with the loose leaves of that type; even that varies. I'm not sure you can say that you're leaves are cleaner than other people's leaves just because they take special care in that shop; where did the leaves come from? You're trying to impose western standards on Chinese tea shop behavior. I mean, the real expensive teas aren't handled, and there are usually sample packs that they use to let you try the tea with that you can handle. I don't think anybody would be dumb enough to randomly sneeze in a jar or container of tea while smelling it or even go to a teashop while sick out of courtesy. Another unspoken rule of sorts.

Most teashop people don't care about oxidation levels and such things unless they are the ones preparing the tea for sale. Again don't try to force western standards on traditional Chinese tea room behavior. Cleanliness over there is viewed a little differently.

Not in China.

Mydnight

-------------------- thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

Sure.

Sasha.

I think it is safe to assume the tea on the shelf at my local tea shoppe was handled x times before auction. The same tea on the shelf in China the same amount of x times. I'm assuming after auction the tea was bagged by mechanization for the Western market. If your case probably more handling by middlemen since no auction. In both cases the pipeline for handling evens out. So the only real delta the number of potential customers who sniff, handle, taste the loose tea in a local market. I assume that is anyone and everyone. You're the one complaining why a TenRen store in Toronto isn't like the one you visit in China. In my local tea shoppe such behavior also is a no-no. That is the way it is. I suggested Western attitudes about inspecting the merchandise is different. The closest you'll come to handling tea at my local tea shoppe is buy a sample pack. If you want to buy one sample black you're forced to buy 23 other blacks the stores also sells. You can't draw any conclusions with only one sample. I'll usually get one sample thrown in with a purchase if it is new stock as a perk because I'm a regular. I suggest just buy a cup to go and say you'll infuse the leaf at home. I sometimes do that for the new stuff and can't wait for my complimentary sample. The real test is the way it taste at home and not in the shoppe. Since tea is an agricultural product I always boil water. That kills what is in the water and hopefully what is in the tea. I don't want to see some piece of a callus even if boiled. Also I don't want to find out Bai Hao is flakes of dandruff. I've been sick in my share of countries eating local cuisine. It goes with the territory.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:

scooping

leaves

shades of an endless night.

The difference between complaint and the sharing of knowledge is pretty great and considering most people here agreed with me, including yourself, i don't consider it a complaint as you say.

See, you're assuming perhaps too much. Pre-auction/wholesale is where the handling would occur. If the tea does in fact come from China, it would have to have been handled quite a bit. I used to hang out in the Fangcun market in Guangzhou and another large tea market area in Dongguan on a regular basis. I'm just telling you what I saw and learned.

Mydnight

-------------------- thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.