Thiamine (B1) Deficiency and Tea Consumption

you're sure there are no other reasons for his deficiency?

"Shen" wrote in news:1169057446.772359.274170 @l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Not disrespecting your professional status, and not overlooking the fact that you posted this suggestion at all, nevertheless I would appreciate the URL's of some of that research, if any of it is on line. I have an intuitive doubt that the wonderful stuff can have any such effect -- but if statistically valid research on has been done which tends to point to this, I certainly want to know of it.

Meantime, consuming tea in amounts in excess of a l/d, I've been avoiding thiamin supplementation for other reasons -- but I suppose a little more kichari (mostly mung beans & brown rice) couldn't hurt, *especially* as it's one of my favorite foods...

Ozzy

"Shen" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Thanks -- have a nice weekend then

Ozzy

innews: snipped-for-privacy@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Ozzy, This is the initial list of data. I also refer to JAMA< Lancet and Medline abstracts. The National Institute of Health substanciates in six abstrats, as well. Most of these studies refer to consumption of one quart to two liters daily.

http://72.14.253.104/search?qÊche:2DeRVNmOYtUJ:

Shen

innews: snipped-for-privacy@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I don't see any mention of "1 quart to 2 liters per day" in any of those references, let alone "most of them".

Some of these references do not mention tea at all.

When references mention tea, there is little or no supporting data in those references, and coffee is usually referenced as well. There are statements to the effect that tea/coffee/betelnuts could be a problem, but no clinical data. In other words, no evidence is put forth.

In references addressing populations at risk, the subjects at risk seem to be severely nutritionally compromised at the outset, with tea being a very minor part of it. Beriberi patients, alcoholics already exhibiting symptoms of severe nerve damage, etc.and who have no access to vitamins whatsoever could perhaps be further put at risk by the thiaminase said to be in coffee and tea. Hardly the worst of thier problems.

Tempest in a teapot, I'd say.

innews: snipped-for-privacy@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

It's actually taught in basic nutrition courses in Naturapathic and Medical schools as well as in required courses for Reg. Nutritionists or Dieticians - polyphenol molecules contain tannin. B1 is tannin resistant and therefore not absorbed. There are more polyphenol molecules in tea than there is in coffee or beetle nuts, for that matter. Copious amounts of anything can cause problems. WHO and NIH in vitamin contraindication studies pretaining to vitamin acessibility and absorption mention this. Any reputable vitamin company or a PDR will tell you the same. If you delve into the aforementioned abstracts further, you will find the same. As a practitioner, I just recommend moderation. Get a Goggle highlighter - they all mention "tea". This was posted only as a sentiment to remind everyone to take care. That's all. I certainly am not creating any "tempest" nor any tea-drinking scare. Scarey is not my nature. I myself drink a pot a day. I do think, however, we human beings could be a little more aware of self-care. That's all. I prefer not to argue. Shen

copious amounts of anything can cause problems. WHO and NIH in vitamin

I totally believe this because I drink a lot of tea, am allergic to wheat, have been on a nervous edge and find benefit from taking B supplements. But I have a different question.

When you say 2-3 liters a day, do you mean 4 grams of leaves in a 4 oz gaiwan that you brew 6-8 times is a liter, or do you mean 4 grams of leaves 8 times in a day? Concentration makes a difference I think.

"Shen" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

thiamin.htm ...

Thanks much, Shen, for taking the time. I thought you'd forgotten all about it -- but then again I've been otherwise occuppied myself for the last few days. :)

Considering what direction the thread took after you posted these references, and your saying that you took a pot of tea a day yourself -- by which we know that you are *not* one of the people referred to below

-- let me remind the group of a passage from Mark Twain's

"It seems a pity that the world should throw away so many good things merely because they are unwholesome. I doubt if God has given us any refreshment which, taken in moderation, is unwholesome, except microbes. Yet there are people who strictly deprive themselves of each and every eatable, drinkable and smokable which has in any way acquired a shady reputation. They pay this price for health. And health is all they get for it."

Ozzy

As a Twainolator, I'm pained to note that the master was wrong about microbes.

/Lew

Lewis Perin wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@panix1.panix.com:

He wasn't, strictly, if you allow for what the term "microbes" meant to the medical layman in his time -- microscopic disease organisms only, hence the fewer the better. (I seriously doubt if he was aware of the concept of benign intestinal florae.) No one can hold him responsible for not-quite-so earthskaking discoveries made at the tail end of his life, or maybe even after it, can they? :) He records elsewhere in the same autobiography that he'd seen homeopathic medicine go out and allopathic medicine (the precursor of modern-day doctoring) come in during his lifetime, which included the growing acceptance of the "germ theory" of disease and the start of antiseptic practices.

I think this attempt to keep current is another example of how unique and varied his mind was. Huckleberry Finn is a tale of (among other things) the gross inhumanities of slavery, yet it was written by a member of the slaveholding class who had initially fought for the South; he also stood up for the Jews in print, another thing that you'd hardly expect from an American gentile born in 1835; etc.

I am also a bit a bit of a Twainolator, you see. :)

Ozzy