Unknown tea [links to photos]

Jim,

I take it that you mean the wormy characters under the chinese ones on the first line?

That's in the Dai minority tribe language. Similar to Thai...

:")

Danny

Sorry, forgot to add...

The first line is Chinese, written in "Li Shu" another form of calligraphy - and my favourite...

Danny

[niisonge] As another example, the character for "bowl" ?? Normally it uses the stone radical ?? But, it can also be written with the earth radical ? instead of the stone radical. Or, you could use the wood radical ?? Or, you chould use the dish radical ? on the bottom. So that all gives it some kind of meaning - whether it's a bowl made from stone, earth, wood, etc. Anyway, most people today just write it as ??

That all adds to the complexity and beauty of written Chinese, which is not expressed in the spoken language.

[Danny] Agree, however, the 'pre-fixes' you mentioned are not radical, but archaic.

? in its early written form is not with ?, but with ?, indicating that it is a metallic object with a wide mouth and narrow bottom, to put things in.

The 'pre-fixes' then changed to ?, ?, ?, ?, before finalising on the character we know today.

danny

My apologies, I forgot I can't post in chinese characters here...

Danny

Danny,

If you want send it to me in email and I'll repost. I now know the Dai character for tea. I thought what I was looking at was Arabic or Indian. Oooh that is a sexy mysterious wrapper.

Jim

samarkand wrote:

[Jim]

Thanks, I'll send it to you...

I don't understand the distinction you're making here. Could you explain, please?

/Lew

[Lew]

Ahh I see, radical as in "word root"? I took it as "change"...archaic as in the characters with these "pre-fixes" or radicals are no longer in use.

Danny

Yes, I meant radical as in "word root" - the things you use to look up a character in a Chinese dictionary - like 人、女、皿、土、石、木、金、瓦、竹、etc. Radicals like these generally indicate some meaning to the character written.

And I was just pointing out the character 碗 has variant forms that could be written with radicals other than the stone 石 radical. Whether they are archaic forms or not is another issue. Modern Chinese is still written with a lot of variant form characters. I was just using the character for cup and bowl as examples. And that's one reason why written Chinese is so complex and interesting.

And then, I was just pointing all of this out, because it's not expressed in the spoken language - since the meaning and pronunciation are all the same. You have to understand the writing, and know how to read to understand the differences. If I write "you" with the 女 radical, it conveys a whole different meaning than if I wrote it with the 人 radical. Though they are both spoken the same, the written meaning is quite different. Simply because 女 means "woman". So if I wrote "you" 你 with the 女 radical, it should refer to females. Whereas, if I wrote you 你 with the 人 radical, it could refer to males or females. But in writing, I generally use the 人 radical form of 你 to refer only to the male gender, and the 女 radical form of 你 to refer to female gender.

And then, in modern Chinese, there is the distinction between Mainland/Singapore written Chinese, which is simplified Chinese 简体，and traditional Chinese 繁体, which is used in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and by most of the Chinese diaspora (like in North America - which includes me). But then, I have a lot of net friends in China, so I usually type characters using simplified Chinese. But in hand writing, always use traditonal Chinese.

So in traditional Chinese, there are variant forms of "you" 你 using the 女 radical or the 人 radical. While in simplified Chinese, there is only the 人 radical version. So if I go to mainland China, and write 你 with the 女 radical, people think I'm crazy. They say that character doesn't exist.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that written Chinese language is amazingly rich, complex, and varied no matter where you are on earth.

[niisonge] So in traditional Chinese, there are variant forms of "you" ? using the ? radical or the ? radical. While in simplified Chinese, there is only the ? radical version. So if I go to mainland China, and write ? with the ? radical, people think I'm crazy. They say that character doesn't exist.

Nah, they won't think you crazy. I know what you mean, - while the 'ren' radical 'ni' is inter-used for both sexes, the feminine form of 'ni' in the above is still used and understood in mainland China. I was watching a mainland series this afternoon and its title still uses the feminine form...

Yeah, but last time I was in China, I got a funny look from my friends. I get even funnier looks when I write in Cantonese, haha.

LOL! Write Cantonese? In where? I think the cantonese characters are recognized only in Hongkong, some areas in Guangzhou, and Malaysia!

Were you in Beijing or up north? I know the beijingers do not usually use the feminine form of 'ni' these days...

Last time, I went to Beijing; and I had a heck of a time understanding northern dialect. But after awhile, I caught on. I just wasn't used to it. Once in a while, I spoke to people in Cantonese just for fun. Some people work in Guangdong, then return home, so they can understand a few words. But a lot of people just had a really puzzled look on their faces.

For me living in Canada, Cantonese is the "normal" Chinese language. So I always thought Chinese who don't understand Cantonese are very strange. Sometimes, I almost wanted to say: "What's wrong with you people? I'm speaking plain Chinese". Haha.

When I chat with net friends in Hong Kong, Canada, Guangdong, and Guangxi, those that can understand Cantonese anyway, we usually type in Cantonese - especially HK friends who can't speak putonghua - they always type in Cantonese.

hi samarkand, sorry for coming back so late, but I wish to thank you for answering with such a detailed explanation. I knew it was not a "fresh" tea, but it liked nontheless. And you confirmed what I had in mind about generic packages. Very much appreciated

Angela