A bad reaction to WHITE wines ???

What sort of white wine do you drink? German wines used (not sure to what extent it is still true) often to contain high Suphur Dioxide levels. This can cause headaches in some people.

Well, as I write this I'm still feeling the effects of a glass of BV Century Cellars 2003 Sauvignon Blanc I had about 7 PM last evening. This last time, maybe 6 months ago, it was Chardonnay but I don't recall the label. In between we had dozens of various reds and whites all over the spectrum. Most of what we consume is in the $6-$10 range, whatever catches our eye at the local store. (Here in Oregon, the local grocery stores are surprisingly well stocked). Not exactly MD 20/20 but not exactly Chateauneuf-du-Pape either.

I've seen some websites that blame wine headaches in general on "cheap" wine. I'm not sure I buy this - One of our favorite table wines is Charles Shaw a/k/a "Two Buck Chuck" from the local Trader Joe's, and it never bothers me.

- FM -

Our experience is the same (mine and my wife's). Not all cheap whites, but some cheap whites. Never reds, never expensive whites. You mentioned BV -- thier Costal Chardonnay is one of our favorites and never a problem. Of the ones we do have problems with, we notice a high percentage use plastic corks. But not all plastic corks cause headaches.

Results are consistent. A headache white will always cause a headache, a non-headache white will never cause one. If I try a new brand from California that costs $7.99 or less (and especially if it has a plastic cork), I'll take some Excedrin beforehand, and it seems to help. My wife, however adheres to medical warnings and passes on the Excedrin, but then suffers more.

By the way, this happens 4-5 times per year and we drink white wine 2-3 times per week.

\/

Not just in German wines but white wines generally have higher S02 levels. Headaches, however are *not* typically a symptom of allergic reactions to sulfites, which run to more typical allergic symptoms: tightness and itchiness in the throat, respiratory problems, that sort of thing.

- Mark W.

Fred, you honestly should either find an alternative drink or stop taking the Excedrin, or any aspirin or Tylenol (or similar) pain relievers with alcohol. My New Year's Resolution for 1 Jan 2004 was to stop taking any pain medicines because they're like pointing a magnifying glass from the sun on your liver when combined with any alcohol. My only pain has ever been headaches and they were from either not enough sleep, reading too much, or drinking too much. It's been very easy to give up the pills by forgoing the "too much" in things! The sleep however is harder to control, but pain meds don't really help that anyway.

White wines have generally a higher combined SO2 level. And SO2 is often causing headaches. It is nothing to do with allergy; is just a normal reaction. Some people is more sensitive.

When grapes are not perfect, the level of free SO2 must be higher in order to prevent unwanted fermentaions or disease of the wine. White wines have often more tendence to combine SO2 then red wines (therefore to have the same level of free SO2 you will have to have a higher level of combined SO2). That partially explains why expensive wines are often not giving headaches and why white wines are giving more headaches than red wines.

SO2 is used even to select yeast.

In Europe the maximum level for combined SO2 allowed for quality wines is 160 mg/l (the minimum -depending of the quality level and the Country- is about 50 mg/l). Anyway a higher level than 110 mg/l can cause headaches or, more precisely, that strange feeling like to have a too small hat.

A suggestion: drink only wines made with grapes in perfect conditions! And not only for sulfites level...

Antonio.

Tobia 4:17 Versa il tuo vino e deponi il tuo pane sulla tomba dei giusti, non darne invece ai peccatori

Hi Antonio

as discussed on IHV, there is no minimum !

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Hi Mike!

nice to meet you here!

For Chianti the minimum is 50 mg/l...

Probabely there are some quality wines categories where there is not such a limit.

A.

Tobia 4:17 Versa il tuo vino e deponi il tuo pane sulla tomba dei giusti, non darne invece ai peccatori

OK, this may be the case for a particular DOC (even though I find it strange), but thee are EU laws defining a maximum, but no minimum.

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

First time ever I heard from an SO2 minimum in 30 years in wine.

You probably have a source for your assertion?

M.

I have been blaming "cheap whites" for the headaches that both my wife and I sometime have after drinking certain wines. The evidence was stacked against them (the most recent being a non-vintage Glen Ellen Chardonnay with a twist off cap), with no plausible explanation as to *why*.

And while many theories have been discussed (including complex chemical analysis), the answer (at least as it pertains to my wife and I) couldn't have been more simple.... DEHYDRATION!!

When we're at a restaurant, we never order cheap wine (white or red), so that narrowed down my "suspects" to cheap (those we have at home). But since the waiters are keeping our water glasses filled, I'd never given it a thought.

When we serve red at home, it's usually room temperature, so we drink ice water to have something cool to drink along with it (and we have non-cheap whites in a more formal dining room setting, where water is just routine).

So for those times that we have a less formal meal (in the kitchen), or just sip wine while watching a movie, we're sometimes not drinking water along with it, and these are most often the times we're trying out our bargain aisle specials.

To test my theory, I withheld water while we enjoyed a 1995 Calon-Segur the other night, and sure enough, we both had a headache the following morning (not really bad, but the first *Boreaux headache* for either of us, ever). Then last night, it was non-vintage, twist-off cap, Glen Ellen Chardonnay (two 1/4 bottles each) with plenty of water, and bingo, no headache today.

\/

I've tried to get a Chianti Superiore DOCG certification for a wine with 45 mg/l combined SO2....

I was as surprised as you are now...

A.

Tobia 4:17 Versa il tuo vino e deponi il tuo pane sulla tomba dei giusti, non darne invece ai peccatori

Antonio, I call it an "allergy" and you call it a "sensitivity" but I can tell you headaches are *not* a common symptom of sulfite allergy/sensitivity. Because of the silly sulfite labeling rules we have in the US, many wine consumers are convinced that sulfites are causing problems when they are not. One place on the web where this is discussed is here:

Excerpting the most pertinent passage, "If you get a headache or a stuffy nose after drinking wine, you may be allergic to something - perhaps the histamines in some red wines. But it's not the sulfites."

Like Michael, your post is the first I've ever heard about a minimum level for sulfites in wine and I am frankly skeptical. Wineries in the US are not *required* to add sulfites at all, market their wine as such and are allowed to omit the "contains sulfites" level if sulfite content from fermentation is under 10 parts per million. It has to be said that the resulting wine is usually not very good but it is allowed. I would be very surprised if Europe demands the use of sulfites curious if you can point us to any such regulation.

- Mark W.

Wine labelled during 2005 in the member Countries of the eu will also mention the presence of sulfites.

SO2 opposes the absorbign process of B1 vitamin. On some people can generate headache. This is sensitivity. If the producer has used good quality grape, the level of SO2 is very low and will probabely not cause headache even on sensitive people.

On people suffering from asthma, some sulfites can cause a crisis. This is allergy. This is the reason why US (and now even the Countries of the eu) imposes the label "contains sulfites".

About the minum of SO2. I'm checking the italian/european laws regarding wine and the local rules regarding quality wine and, in effect, I'm finding a lot of stuff about maximum levels but nothing about minimum levels.

On the other hand I can assure you that at least the chamber of commerce of Florence is not certifying quality wines with too little level of SO2. I'll ask them why and let you know.

As you said, for the moment sulfites are really necessary for good wine production and this could be the reason why the chamber of commerce is not certifying quality wines with low level of SO2. I will post the official answer of the chamber of commerce as soon as I get it; I think it could be interesting.

Antonio.

Tobia 4:17 Versa il tuo vino e deponi il tuo pane sulla tomba dei giusti, non darne invece ai peccatori

I am quite surprised about "Chianti Superiore DOCG". Never heard of that DOCG before. Maybe that was the reason?

M.

Chianti Superiore DOCG it's a new part (seven years old) of Chianti DOCG made on the idea of a small group of producers in the aim of making easier the life of the consumer in the complicated Chianti DOCG world. The idea was to give the consumer an easily recongnizaible higher quality level of Chianti.

Nowadays we are about 10 producers from all different areas of Chianti. We have higher quality parameters then the Chianti subzones, including the classico, but we can produce everywhere in the Chianti wine-area.

Antonio.

Tobia 4:17 Versa il tuo vino e deponi il tuo pane sulla tomba dei giusti, non darne invece ai peccatori

Thank you for the information. My 2002 edition of "Die Liste der DOC- und DOCG-Weine", edited by Enoteca Italiana (Siena), does not define "Chianti Superiore", but only mentions "Superiore" in excluding it for "Riserva".

M.

I take alleve every day for genaral back pain and it helps. I got the routine blood tests back last week and all my liver functions are in the normal range.

From what I've read, acetominophen is the one not to mix with alcohol.

I can't speak for headaches, because I don't get them, but red wine and pungent cheeses give me a burning mouth, whichI I guess is a histamine reaction. So I do not mix them.

Everyone's medical situation is so individual that blanket rules are probably not appropriate. Just avoid heavy drinking with acetominophen.

Tom Schellberg

"Antonio Nardi-Dei da Filicaja Dotti" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

And SO2 is

but when i drink whites I do not, and even if I drink box zinfaldel which is made with red grapes it does not bothers me. ? Sergio =========================================>> SO2 is used even to select yeast.