Anybody have any opinions on the 2003 Germans?

"Jaybert41" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m26.aol.com...

I'll be in Germany early October to check out the 2003's and will report later, but so far, reports seem to indicate a good, sweet year with a lot of TBA's and also that a number of vintners have added acidity, specially allowed for 2003 only, with mixed results. Counting figures, 2003 seem to rank behind the glorious 2001 and very good 2002, but it is probably a quite good year and you shouldn't stay away from it, imho, just accept that the wines have a character of their own. And, yes, there are great (and expensive) wines around, from Weil, Künstler, Crusius and St. Urbans-Hof to mention but a few.

Your bottle receives 86 points (excellent (not marketing WS-points...)) and is commented like this in wein-plus.de: Vielschichtiger und tiefer Duft nach Mineralien, süßen Kräutern, Zitrusfrüchten und Pfirsichen. Glasklar und feinsaftig im Mund, hochfeine Säure, mineralisches Rückgrat, nachhaltig am Gaumen, sehr harmonisch, guter Abgang. Man sollte ihn zwei Jahre liegen lassen - und dann Kistenweise trinken. Bis 2009.

Translation attempt:

Multilayered and deep bouquet of minerals, sweet herbs, citruses and peaches. Brilliant and exquisitely juicy in mouth, elegant acidity, mineral backbone, reticent on the palate,very harmonious, good in final. It should be kept lying for two years and then consumed by the caseload. Will keep till 2009.

Well, first of all I heard Dönnhoff did well in '03. And $19 for a Dönnhoff is a good price.

I don't have much '03 experience yet, except with Leitz. I didn't like the '03 Dragonstone near as much as the '02 or '01, serious QPR QbAs. But I quite liked the Rüdesheimer Klosterlay Kab & the Rüdesheimer Magdalenenkreuz Spätlese.

More tests are in order! Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Thanks to the both of you; and yes, more tests are in order!

Jason

I've tried both Leitz Rudesheimer Klosterlay and Dragonstone 2003 and found the Dragon much better, at least to my tastes- sweeter, richer, and very spicy. I will get as much of it as I can.

I have only tried a couple of 03's including the v.Hovel Hutte Kab and the Fritz Haag J-S Spat and neither compare with '01 or '02 for balance and purity of fruit. Granted, both are young.

From what I have learned, acidity is a problem and the best estates did not acidify (out of pride and tradition), though some areas were allowed to do so in '03. The lighter wines may suffer but as the sugar content goes up, so goes the potential for storage. Sugar is a great preservative. Whether it is worth preserving is a different and personal question all together!

The Hutte had a huge hole after the mid-palate that didn't pass with air time. It seems to have great body without the stuffing to fill it up. It wasn't cloying but the sweetness gave the fruit that was there, a run for its money (so to speak). Acid was marginal to my taste. There seems to be a lot of discussion about the "03's understated/ripe acidity but the fact that wein-plus.de only gives the Donhoff Kab till 2009, tells a great deal about their observations. Good Kabs from the better estates normally age a lot longer than that.

The Juffer-Sonnenuhr Spat was totaly effervescent when opened. Once that blew off, the wine was very slatey with a better acid structure than the Hutte but the back end had a bitterness that only increased with air time. Someone mentioned to me that this unusual vintage has problems with bitter phenolics. I honestly have no idea what that means but it sounds like the weird weather in '03 played havoc with the many maturation curves that grapes go through.... and "phenological" must be one of them. Maybe someone could enlighten us.

I am certainly no expert (as my tasting notes reflect) and the uniqueness of this vintage may prove to be a learning vintage for many of us. Maybe the old "expectations" don't apply, maybe they do. I am unsure and only trying others will satisfy the need to know!!

I think I've once written here that according to a Trittenheim vintner I was staying in June, the Robert Weil Rheingau Spätlese halbtrocken was acidified with citric acid.

I don't know whether that's true, but it was his opinion after tasting the wine. True, after he'd said that, I could detect more of a "zingy" acid than was actually expected of such hot year. I did not, however, notice them in the winery tasting room.

Acidifying was allowed there (the Rheingau) in 03.

Anyway, based on that - and a couple of other 03's I tasted there - I'll rather try finding some more 01 Germans myself. But that's only my taste as I'm more into the Trocken style for Kabinetts and Spätleses.

However, I expect to be getting a bottle or three of 03 Dr Loosen Ürziger Würzgarten within a couple of weeks; might get back with a few comments then.

Cheers,

-Topi Kuusinen, Finland

I would enjoy seeing your comments! I have not tried any trocken or halbtrocken '03's yet. Since they are usually very "stiff" with acidity, the '03's could be very interesting and of a generally atypical softer balance (unless fortified).

Robert Weil acidifying wines would be a big surprise but life is full of surprises. It makes me wonder what kind of acids were allowed for acidification use (citric, malic, tartaric, etc). I keep a little tartaric acid at home (doesn't everyone?) and will use it occassionally in wines that I would otherwise find flabby and undesirable. Sometimes it makes a phenomenal improvement... but only when the rest of the wine's attributes are solid and attractive. Very tart stuff, to be sure and a little goes a long way.

I tried one or two halbtrocken 03 Mosels while I was there, and they seemed to be on the soft side as far as acidity is concerned. I do not, however, have much previous experience on trocken or halbtrocken Mosels so can't really compare.

Well, the comment about added citric acid was a bit of a surprise to me as well, given the reputation of the winery. However, this comment was from another vintner from another region and some of his comments were reflecting a bit of rivalry between the river valleys. For, example, the vintner tookt the wine to the official Prüfstelle where the verdict was that such a swill would not get an AP number there.

Also, the wine in question was the generic Rheingau Spätlese, and I must say I'd be even more surprised to hear comments about, say, Kiedricher Gräfenberg being acidified.

I really do not know whether the wine was acidified, but the acid ending was surprisingly sharp for a year with such a reputation and I could convince myself it was different from, say, the corresponding 01 wines.

Then again, I guess one could get decent acid levels without adding acid by such careful selection of grapes as was described here previously.

I did not ask which acids were allowed, but he told me that citric acid was definitely allowed.

Cheers,

-Topi Kuusinen, Finland

I am drinking the Monchhof Estate Riesling 2003 right now (It has a screw cap!), and I think it has quite strong acid and minerals; perfect balance with ripe (not really sweet) fruit. Lovely expression, tingly acid, cool and lively. 9% ABV. I can hardly wait till all 03 become available. This may be subject for another thread, but will most restaurant owners/sommeliers be willing to stock wines with screw caps? Having had two corked German wines recently I prefer caps, but will most wine drinkers? "Would you like to smell the cap Monsieur?" "What's your restaurants screwage fee?"

Here is the requested "other thread."

"kenneth mccoy" in news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...

(Good one!) I believe, as also the question goes on to suggest, that it will depend on the clientele. More than on the owners and wine experts at the restaurants. Those with wine-sophisticated customers may be offering capped wines already. I haven't seen any data on this. (Certainly, synthetic corks are not novel; I've seen them in many US restaurants, although that is a less visible step.)

-- Max

"Larry B" skrev i melding news:V3Y4d.8750$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Incredibly enough, I was in Brauneberg yesterday morning, having been rerouted from Scotland to Germany instead of Norway by an air traffic controller strike... Sitting the night at Hahn airport was a bleak prospect but with Brauneberg 38 kilometers away I arranged for a vintner to meet my party of 5 on landing 23.45 and drive us to his hotel :-) Of course, there was a wine tasting next morning, albeit a quick one before going to the airport again. Tomorrow I'll be driving to Mosel for the real tasting... We did have a sweetish fruity low acid dry Q.b.A at 12%alc, low priced and somewhat unimpressive, but also a quite nice other one at 12.5 with acceptable acidity and balance - think it was the Juffer. A medium one was pretty OK, but then there was a very good Spätlese I'll have to look into again. That wine had everything needed. The Auslese was a 2001, good but no match for the Spätleses of the same year (don't ask me why!) - and then there was a TBA... Wonderful, unctuous, silky, packed with aromas and enormous length... 203 degrees Oechsle... Sigh, beyond my wallet... Will tell more next week Anders