Australia V The World

Interesting article in the Epicure lift out in the big paper in Melbourne today. If you're interested I can post a list of the wines tasted Cheers Andrew

formatting link

Australia v The World May 10, 2005

Do you usually - if not always - buy the wines you know? Might be time to think again. By Jeni Port.

Go into any wine store, look on any shelf and there is competition aplenty for Australian winemakers from their international counterparts. Do we buy the zesty La Chablisienne from France for $20 or the ripe and sunny Penfolds Thomas Hyland chardonnay for $19? Or should it be the velvety smooth Guigal Cotes-du-Rhone from the Rhone Valley or the fruity Mitchell grenache blend from Clare, both for around $20? It's a closer call than you might imagine. Move up a price peg or two and doubts start to niggle. We wonder whether the foreign wine compares favourably with its Australian counterpart. Will we understand the style? Was the vintage that much different from our own? Will we get value for money, and just what is the grape variety exactly? These are all good questions. Hopefully some might be answered in our Australia versus The World wine tasting. It's a modest snapshot comparing Australian wine styles we have become familiar with - sparkling, riesling, chardonnay, shiraz, etc - with their overseas equivalents. They're the kind of wines you'll see on almost any wine store shelf. Prices range from $20 to $120. The styles were presented in lots of four - two Australians and two from overseas - in a blind tasting. Our panel of experienced tasters were wine show judge/educator and consultant winemaker Gary Baldwin of WineNet; importer and president of the Australian Sommeliers' Association (Victoria) Ben Edwards; and retailer/wine educator Alex Wilcox of The Prince wine store. Sparkling Four non-vintage styles were chosen for the sparkling taste test. NV is regarded as the best representation of house style and the most consistent. It's also a bigger seller than vintage. The Australians were admittedly cheaper than their French and Italian counterparts, but would this put them in a stronger position when it came to value for money? Not necessarily. Chandon was regarded as "fruity, simple and confectionery" and identified immediately as Australian. The other Australian, Jansz, with its "terrific acid and length", showed up a little better. But overall the Australians lacked the emphatic depth, richness and structure of their counterparts. Riesling Australian makers quite rightly pride themselves on their prowess with riesling. The Clare Valley - citrussy and structured - and the Eden Valley - floral and elegant - lay claim to being the best two sites for the grape. Strong competition is now coming from Germany and Austria. The aim was to present like against like but again the Aussies were obvious to our panel, standing out with their (mostly) clean, crisp lines and purity of flavour. The Old World styles were definitely in a richer and more unctuous flavour zone, spicy, complex and lingering. Sauvignon blanc The Australians have their tropical fruit, the New Zealanders have their herbaceousness and the French their minerality. The world of sauvignon blanc seems nicely divided, but the utter purity of New Zealand fruit seems to make it a winner every time. Well, not this time. On paper it was going to be difficult for the Australians and a Sancerre to compete with New Zealand's top-selling international superstar, Cloudy Bay. But little did we realise the pulling power of Australian Dominique Portet's wine, one that reveals a deliberate change in style, which is softer, more textural and food-friendly. Chardonnay This was always going to be very interesting. We had a New Zealand heavyweight up against a Burgundy of fine reputation, with two contrasting Australian styles. The Burgundy was sheer class, with "fantastic" minerality. That it's an older, more developed wine (1996) that is still available says something about the ageworthiness of Burgundy. The Australians, in the eyes of the judges, lacked the same weight, power and intensity. Pinot grigio The story of pinot gris (the French style) and pinot grigio (the Italian style) is a complicated one. Pinot gris in Australia is all over the place, many styles without direction. However, pinot grigio fares better. The earlier-picked Italian style is punchy and direct, acidity is clean and there is a stirring salty, rockpool character in the better examples. Here we have wines (T'Gallant, Miceli) more than capable of standing up against the Italian imports (Bortoluzzi, Bollini). The results reflect impressive progress by Australian makers. Marsanne/roussanne Before we became besotted by viognier, there was marsanne. The white Rhone Valley grape, along with its partner in many a wine, roussanne, share a simple rusticity that makes them utterly drinkable but somewhat forgettable (well, by some). Marsanne by itself can show light florals and honeysuckle. When blended with roussanne there is generally greater texture but often at a sacrifice of fruitiness. The Australians stood out with their fresh fruit and crisp acidity while the French showed either an unattractive cooked bean character or hard acidity. Pinot noir If ever there was a category to show the enduring style difference between the Old World and New, it was this one. New World is fresher, fruitier, more upfront. Old World is darker-berried, more complex, less oak with contained power. Well, that's the theory. The quality gap must be closing because while our panel could identify Burgundy, New Zealand and Australia, they just couldn't agree on which wines they were. And that was after the removal of the Burgundy (Domaine des Lambrays) because of cork taint. It was decided that the winning Australian (Stonier) was the sort of wine "you want to send out a message about". Shiraz Australian shiraz is big and warm and friendly. French syrah from the Rhone Valley is more reserved. The styles are worlds apart - literally - but would our panel see the difference? They certainly did. The Delas from the Rhone had richness and great length with savoury appeal. It was decided it was the kind of wine to enjoy with a game bird. The Seppelt Great Western was definitely not the shy and retiring kind. It was clearly a steak wine with vibrant fruit, although in the cooler-climate Australian style. The Mitolo shiraz from McLaren Vale was your classic Aussie - big, thick and alcoholic - but the style didn't appeal. Nor did the second Rhone entry, from Jaboulet, with its pleasant briary savouriness soured a little by the spoilage yeast, brettanomyces. Cabernet sauvignon Australian cabernet is in the doldrums, but there are still producers who believe in it. You tend to look for them in Margaret River and Coonawarra. Overseas, the grape variety is enjoying a far better run in regions such as California and, of course, Bordeaux. With the Australians, the panel liked the clean fruit although comment was passed on the level of noticeable alcohol and oak. The Bordeaux, with its angular acidity, was recognised as French, but the Californian was not considered a good example, showing a hollow middle palate. Sangiovese You know you've got a good wine tasting when the judges get emotional, and they got emotional here. Each scored individual gold medals to wines, making it one of the highest-scoring classes. Quality was obviously high but how would they rate style-wise, with the Italians favouring a drier, more astringent wine than the Australians? The tasting pitted a traditional old-style chianti (Poggerino) against a modern chianti with stronger fruit definition (Cerro del Masso). Both were overshadowed by two outstanding Australian examples. It might be argued that the judges' tastebuds were more attuned to the Australians, except some picked them as Italian. Grenache blends In the southern Rhone Valley, the style of grenache blends is anywhere between rich and jammy to rich and tannic. In Australia, grenache also likes the heat and is at home in the Barossa and McLaren Vale, where it too is often blended with other grapes (mourvedre and shiraz). On paper it should have been an exciting showdown between the two styles. In reality, one Chateauneuf-du-Pape rose above all others. The Barossan and Australian benchmark, Charles Melton Nine Popes, was too oaky. The other Barossan (Penfolds Bin 138) showed too much lolly-sweet confection. The winner (Chateau La Nerthe) was simply complete, well balanced with vibrant fruit, something its Rhone colleague (Domaine Pontifical) lacked under its blanket of brettanomyces. So, what did we learn? Although modest in scale, the tasting helped confirm what many of us have suspected. Australian wines in general can't help but reveal their origins, and Australian winemakers more than ever seem relaxed about being different. They've stopped beating themselves up for not being more French than the French or more Italian than the Italians and appear far more comfortable with their place in the wine world. Perhaps as a result of this, they're making some impressive wines. As Gary Baldwin said: "The style difference is there but the quality is getting closer." And as the gap closes, the rewards are there for all of us to enjoy. Can we be so parochial that we can't taste and enjoy the intrinsic value of a wine, no matter what its origins? I don't think so. There is great value and good wine out there and it isn't always Australian. Enjoy

Reply to
Andrew Goldfinch
Loading thread data ...

] Interesting article in the Epicure lift out in the big paper in Melbourne ] today. If you're interested I can post a list of the wines tasted ] Cheers Andrew ] ]

formatting link
]

][]

I'd be interested in the list, if you've got it handy, Andrew. Thanks.

AU$20 for a generic Guigal CdR? Wow. That's about a 6 Eu bottle, I guess.

-E

Reply to
Emery Davis

I'd like to see the list, too. An iteresting article, but these "show-downs" tell more about the individuals wines than the regions (unctuous Austrian Riesling?)

Reply to
DaleW

Interesting discussion about this on the Auswine board

formatting link

Will post wines soon

Reply to
Andrew Goldfinch

The wines. Wine name, Vintage, Region, Price in Oz Dollars, Tasters Score.

Sparkling Lanson NV Champagne $54 18.1 Bellavista NV Lombardy $65 17.6 Jansz NV Tasmania $22 16.6 Chandon NV Multi Regional $31 16

Riesling Georg Breuer Terra Montosa 01 Rheingau $45 17.1 Petaluma Hanlin Hill 04 Clare Valley $25 16.8 Pewsey Vale 04 Eden Valley $18 16.8 Prager Kaiserberg Riesling Smaragd 03 Wachau $55 16.5

Sauvignon Blanc Dominique Portet 04 Yarra Valley $20 17.3 Cloudy Bay 04 Marlborough $30 16.6 Henry Brochard 03 Sancerre $30 16.3 Shaw & smith 04 Adelaide Hills $22 16.1

Chardonnay Druid Le Limozin 96 Burgundy $120 18 Kemeu River 03 Auckland $44 17.5 Giaconda 02 Beechworth $93 16.5 Yabby Lake Vineyard 03 Mornington Peninsula $35 16

Pinot Grigio T'Gallant 04 Mornington Peninsula $20 16.8 Bortoluzzi 03 Venezia $30 16.8 Miceli Iolanda 03 Mornington Peninsula $20 16.1 Bollini 03 Trentino $22 16

Marsanne/Rousanne Tallarook 03 Goulbourn Valley $28 16.8 Paul Jaboulet Mule Blanche Crozes-Hermitage 01 Northern Rhone $39 16.6 Yeringberg 03 Yarra Valley $40 16.3 Chapoutier Les Meysonniers Crozes-Hermitage 02 Northern Rhone $26 16

Pinot Noir Stonier Reserve 03 Mornington Peninsula $39 18.5 Bannockburn 02 Geelong $49 18.1 felton Road 03 Central otago $62 17.3 Domaine Des Lambrays Morey-St-Denis 02 Burgundy $69 Corked

Shiraz Delas Les Bessards Hermitage 01 Northern Rhone $170 17.8 Seppelt St Peters Great Western 01 Grampians $51 17.3 Paul Jaboulet Domaine De Thalabert Crozes-Hermitage 00 Northern Rhone $50 17 Mitolo Savitar 03 McLaren vale $66 16.1

Cabernet Sauvignon Moss Wood 01 Margaret River $115 17.6 St Hugo 01 Coonawarra $36 17.1 Lezongars L'Enclos 01 Bordeaux $42 17 Rodney Strong Sonoma County 98 California $57 15.8

Sangiovese Coriole 03 McLaren Vale $22 18.1 Pizzini 03 King Valley $26 17.3 Poggerino Chianti Classico 01 Tuscany $34 16.8 Cerro del Masso Chianti 03 Tuscany 16.6

Grenache Blends Chateau La Nerthe Chateauneuf-du-Pape 00 Southern Rhone $75 17.5 Charles Melton Nine Popes 02 Barossa Valley $46 16.8 Domaine Pontifical Chateauneuf-du-Pape 00 Southern Rhone $45 16.6 Penfolds Bin 138 Old Vines GSM 03 Barossa Valley $26 16.5

Reply to
Andrew Goldfinch

Andrew, thanks for posting list. A few comments on the Old World wines:

Riesling Georg Breuer Terra Montosa 01 Rheingau $45 17.1 Wow, even converting to Oz dollars $45 seems high for a QbA !

Prager Kaiserberg Riesling Smaragd 03 Wachau $55 16.5 Maybe the '03 vintage explains the unctuous comment.

I love the "Strong competition is now coming from Germany and Austria.". Ah, yes, NOW those Germans and Austrians are making good Riesling!

Marsanne/Rousanne Paul Jaboulet Mule Blanche Crozes-Hermitage 01 Northern Rhone $39 16.6 Chapoutier Les Meysonniers Crozes-Hermitage 02 Northern Rhone $26 16

I gotta say, cheaper white Rhones never appeal to me. I love good CdP blanc, or Jermitage blanc (not that I can afford it), but can't recall a Crozes I'd buy.

Pinot Noir Domaine Des Lambrays Morey-St-Denis 02 Burgundy $69 Corked

So this confused me. "The quality gap must be closing " Because the one Burg was corked? Hey,l 've liked the Felton Road. And would be love to be given opportunity to taste some better Australians. But drawing ANY inferences from four samples is pretty ludicrous, and if your one example of Old World is tainted, well .......

Shiraz Paul Jaboulet Domaine De Thalabert Crozes-Hermitage 00 Northern Rhone $50 17 This used to be a QPR fave, but I haven't bought in recent years. Downhill slide.

Cabernet Sauvignon Rodney Strong Sonoma County 98 California $57 15.8 OK producer, very weak year. This is a $10-12US bottle.

Sangiovese Poggerino Chianti Classico 01 Tuscany $34 16.8 Cerro del Masso Chianti 03 Tuscany 16.6

First is mediocre maker, second is one I've never heard of (from an atypical vintage).

Andrew, let's be clear I'm not (a) ragging on you for posting article or (b) unwilling to believe that Oz wines can be as good as or better than Old World wines. I just think it's crazy that writer is drawing ANY conclusions on this. These seem to be a remarkably pedestrian list of Old World wines, mostly drunk very young, and many from atypical vintage (2003). If one wanted to make a REAL study, what one should do is get 2 vociferous advocates of Oz wines, and 2 vociferous advocates of Old World wines. Pick a grape, and then have each (within a set budget) bring 3 to 4 wines they think representative (with backup bottles in case of taint or some other issue). Then have another panel of tasters try them blind.

Reply to
DaleW

"DaleW" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Hi Breuer's own price was 12EUR. With interest and exchange rates - maybe 15USD today... Anders

Reply to
Anders Tørneskog

Hi Dale I wasn't assuming that were ragging on me. And it is clear to all (well maybe not mike scarpitti :) ) that just about every recognised wine producing region in the world is able to produce both delicious wine and undrinkable dreck.

However to address your points from an Aussie perspective. The cost factor here is enormous, we pay a LOT more for imported wines than you do in the states (which may also help explain the remarkably pedestrian line up of old world wines).

The comment about the German & Austrian Rieslings is, I think, in regard to them becoming strong competition at a retail level here in Oz (heightened awareness of the quality of the german & austrian wines) not a comment in regards to their relative quality.

The quality gap comment in regards to the Pinot was because all the tasters picked the Stonier Reserve as a Burgundy and they only identified the Felton Road as new world. An aside here, there were comments from the tasters beside the list of wines which I didn't include in the post (too much typing) but the comments beside the Stonier was - Mouthcoating texture, beautiful fruit and tannins, has to be Burgundy. The comments beside the Bannockburn were - Very French, very dark, great structure.

I think the conclusion drawn that Australian wines are now more reflective of their terrior than they ever have been and that most producers are comfortable with this is valid in the context of the article. I don't think it's a case of Oz wines are better than French wines or vice versa. For me style differences between new & old world, individual regions and even individual palates is part of what makes wine such an interesting hobby. I LOVE big fat reds with lots of up front fruit. Shiraz that drips with sun warmed fruit and lashings of (american) oak really lights my fire. (The provisio here is that they need to be very well made, kalleske, torbreck & glaymond in the Barossa come to mind). I also love aged, complex reds with lots of secondary characters, austere wines of elegance & great structure and most of the best examples of wines of this ilk I have had have been French. I don't really care where these wines come from and as the article concludes "there is great value & good wine out there and it isn't always Australian".

I would also be keen to try your study, so if you happen to come across to this part of the world anytime soon I will be happy to join in. :) Cheers Andrew

Like most people I like wines of quality in any style

Reply to
Andrew Goldfinch

Hi Emery $20 Oz is actually 12 Euros. Not great value hey. Cheers andrew

Reply to
Andrew Goldfinch

Salut/Hi Andrew Goldfinch,

le/on 11 May 2005 21:14:00 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

Why? We can get Australian wines for around $AS9 here. I can't see that it can cost more to send wines from Europe to Australia than from Australia to Europe. Assuming (rightly or wrongly) that the costs of the the shipping, the bottling etc are going to be roughly the same, then a wine that WE can get at €3-4 (including the cost of the bottle, tax and the retail profit margin) ought not to cost much more than (say) $AS12 in Oz.

I have much sympathy with Lord St Helier when he criticises European protectionism, and American 3 tier profiteering but isn't a monumental price hike in Australia even worse, as it is a sort of hidden protectionism.

What duty is payable on European wines when imported into Australia?

Reply to
Ian Hoare

Hi Ian I think a big part of the problem is the size of the market. Australia is just too small a market, too far away to make it worth while business for most exporters, unless the margins are high. Add the WET tax and GST, importers & retailers premiums and that 4 euro bottle is getting close to $25 or 30 Oz. At which price point these 4 euro bottles are outclassed by the local product and sales don't make the effort worth it for the exporter.

Conversely Oz wines are exported to 2 enormous markets, Europe & the US where the economies of scale (not to mention the fact that WET & GST aren't payable on wine exports) makes the wines super competitive in these markets. Cheers Andrew

Reply to
Andrew Goldfinch

Greetings oh Anglofrancohungaphile.

Of course, it is always a matter of scale - I mean, despite all their posturing, Australia is still a mere puddle in the great ocean of the world population (20,090.437) - and of course, this pimple of the backside of the South Pacific which I call home contains a massive 4,035,461 (give or take a few million sheep!!!

What I am trying to say is that importing a whole container load of wine of French wine to the antipodes represents a years worth of sales to a small importer (and here in NZ, this requires a certain amount of speculation)

Whereas, for someone like Southcorp to send 1,200 cases to their agent in Europe in general or France in particular is not such a "gamble"

So, I do understand that an Australian importer may feel justified in adding another margin, to compensate for the time it would take to sell his consignment.

I am very fortunate - I have a small importer with his own retail outlet in Auckland, and a flourishing mail order business which means that I am able to source a range of French (and German and Spanish and Italian) wines at very reasonable prices because he consolidates his European purchases into a single container, and despite our excise duty (payable on all alcohol) and

12.5% GST (VAT equivalent) - remains very competitive with local wines.

Of course, unlike our Australian cousins, NZers are a little less parochial, and are willing to accept that very good wines are made outside of Godzone.

Regards to all

Reply to
st.helier

Salut/Hi Swooper - and Andrew

le/on Fri, 13 May 2005 09:37:31 +1000, tu disais/you said:-

So do local wines have to pay these taxes too? Because if they do, it seems to me that this STILL doesn't explain the huge difference. You'll both see what I mean if you try to put some real figures into the equation.

Take a wine that retails at around $10AS in the region of production (to try to keep the variations due to local transportation costs out). As against a European wine that retails at about the same here - €5. I don't know if Oz shops - like some others in other parts of the world - expect to make their markup on on a post tax price, but asssuming they do, but have to charge GST on top, we get pre-GST $9.09. Normal retail margins are not far off 25% minimum on cost so the wine comes in at 7.27. Now take off the tax = $5.23 pre tax, which it would be reasonable to assume the wine would be sold at to an importer buying for the European market. Now I don't know the cost of shipping, so I now have to jump to the European end. A mid/low end Australian wine such as I have seen in Australia at $10 would cost around 6 quid in a UK supermarket, including all the import taxes, shipping costs, VAT and profit.

So take the same sort of calculation for the UK - Oz's major importer. £6 less 17.5% VAT = £5.11 less 25% markup = £4.09. Then take off UK duty (which is NOT payable in France, for example - £163/Hl) to end up at £2.87 which is the cost of the wine when it appears in the UK in bond. Recalculating in AS dollars we get abt $7AS. That would imply that the shipping costs and wholesale margins amount to around $2AS (let's be generous).

So let's now take the same calculations for a decent €4 french wine $6.60AS. Margins here are a bit higher, as is VAT. (I'd expect a retailer to take 33% and VAT is at 19.6%). This works out at $4.73 - add shipping costs etc of $2 = $6.73. Now adding your WET we get $9.35. Assuming a reasonable wholesaler's margin of 10% = $10.28 and 25% retailers margin gives $12.86. Now add your GST and you end up with $14.14. That's a LONG way from the $25 you suggest. I think that's pretty clear evidence of price gouging somewhere along the line!

EVEN if the wine were sold to an Australian importer at the full french retail price of €4, it could still sell at $18 odd a bottle with reasonable margins being taken. So what's happened to the $7 to $11? That's how much you're paying over the odds in OZ. Tsk.

Reply to
Ian Hoare

Now be careful there St H.... my biggest selling SB's are ALL NZ..... we are not ALL unecessarily parochial...:>)

hooroo.....

Reply to
Swooper

My take on this is that Australian wines are actively exported and vigorously marketed in the UK and US particularly. They are therefore keenly priced in those markets.

European wines on the other hand are imported into Australia by Australian's hoping to make a profit from the importation. Often the wines are cheap rubbish passed off as something special. I do wish that the French, Italians and Spanish would see fit to export wines to Australia and vigorously market them but they do not. In part that has to do with the size of the market here but it must also reflect a laziness caused by the European protectionism. If all European wine had to be sold rather than much of it being distilled surely the incentive to sell the wines anywhere there is a reasonable market would be greater?

Reply to
Keith

Salut/Hi Keith,

le/on Sun, 15 May 2005 05:13:34 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

The keen pricing is a matter of policy by the _importers_.

And that's the fault of European wine makers? Strange logic. Australians buy rubbish and pass it off at exhorbitant prices using misleading advertising, and that's the fault of European producers. Well now, Keith. You can do better than that.

No, it's because they know that it would be a total waste of time. You can't really _export_ wines, you can only make them available for others to _import_. That's because the importer knows and can create the market. Yes, you can sell at a loss (as Australia did for many years, to kick start a demand for her wines) and that is a valid marketing strategy , viable for large corporations but nevertheless, it's the IMPORTERS into the UK which have created and fuelled the sales.

surely the incentive to sell the wines anywhere

No, because there is a lower limit of price below which it costs less to let the grapes rot. The labour/gas costs of harvesting, the labour involved in vinifying, the cost of barrels (if used), bottles, closures and so on. These are all directly dependent upon actually making the wine. If they can only sell at a loss, they might just as well not make wine. At the moment in bulk, much bottom end wine only brings in around .90 cents Australian a litre or even less. They simply CAN'T go any lower and live off it.

I agree that distillation is not really an answer, but it might just keep body and soul together for wine makers for a year or two, before the world demand catches up with supply, which is the best estimate of the situation. I've got harsh criticism of French wine regulations, as many hear can attest, but that doesn't mean that your importers and retailers aren't being crooked in their pricing.

Reply to
Ian Hoare

I do agree that in the mid 1980s the flow of Australian wines into the UK was led by John Ratcliffe of Oddbins and I also agree that the UK is a market where pricing is driven by the supermarkets. I cannot agree however that the growth of sales through the 1990s had nothing to do with marketing efforts by Rosemount et al.

The recent growth in sales of Australian wine in the US is very much a result of active marketing.

I'm not blaming the European wine makers for the prices of their wines in Australia, I am lamenting the fact that they are not doing more to get them here at a good price because I would like to buy them!

As for distillation simply being to keep body and soul together for wine makers for a year or two, all I can say is get real, can you remember a time when there wasn't a European wine lake?

Reply to
Keith

I love a good Savvy. I buy these 2 all the time :):

We have family interest in this winery ;)

Reply to
Ms Leebee

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.